this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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I really do feel like I'm taking crazy pills with libs this election. The last two they at least had a bloodless rationale to the "lesser of two evils" rhetoric.

But this is genocide, the canonical Worst Thing You Can DO! I know many just believe that it's not a genocide at all because Palestinian civilians are all Hamas and just subhuman or that the videos published by official IOF channels are all deepfaked by the hungry ghost of Nasrallah. But then just FUCKING SAY IT and then we can call you a genocide denier and we'll know where we stand!

What I can't get is that many do seem to agree it's a genocide and Kamala is complicit. But then they lesser evil by going "Well if we don't vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here."

Like Fuck You! You scheming, gaslighting bloody handed monster!

Either this is just a disingenuous argument to get your team in power or to maintain liberal civility politics, in which case double Fuck You that you think people are abstract political tools.

Or, you actually believe this, and the freedom of an LGBT person here outweighs the lives of 2 million people, many LGBT, who happen to have had the extreme misfortune to be born 5 cm over the border and thus outside your ability to feel empathy.

In which case Triple Fuck You, because you are, somehow, more of a fascist than Trump. At least Trump is too incoherent to make a complete argument for fascist policy!

I'm going mad, I really am. How can people be streamed genocide live on CNN and just say "well, I guess we're ok with genocide now!" Is the US public even human?! Even the fucking Germans had the good sense to pretend to look guilty after they lost.

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[–] Angel@hexbear.net 71 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (20 children)

Liberals get so scratched when you tell them that you're a marginalized person who wants them to fuck off.

They love to exploit the hell out of the underprivileged (unless said underprivileged people are Arab Americans) to make their case as to why you have to vote

Racial justice, women's rights, and LGBTQ+ equality are all just tools they use to act as if they're any less bourgeois, chauvinistic, and ultimately fascist in nature than Republicans.

[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 47 points 3 weeks ago

I'm convinced this is why they let the interracial marriage supreme court case become a reich-winger brainworm. You can't convince me that's not going to become a cudgel down the line, either; if this doesn't work, it'll be us next. "ooooOOOOOoooo, they're gonna force you back into Jim Crow" like we won't just start shooting at that point.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 37 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I've been accused of being a secret Trumper, a Chinese infiltrator, and a Russian bot multiple times. Sometimes all three at once.

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[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 30 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I've been accused of being white so many times by shitlibs

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[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I've been accused of being white so many times by shitlibs

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[–] Angel@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago

I've been accused of being white so many times by shitlibs

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[–] spiral_auth@hexbear.net 53 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

"I voted blue, I am absolved of all guilt and can continue consuming corporate screen content for 16 hours a day."

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 27 points 3 weeks ago

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 52 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

But then they lesser evil by going "Well if we don't vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here."

I don't know if they understand how much it looks like they use our LGBTQ+ comrades as a human shield. "Either become complicit in our genocide of the browns, or we'll let our controlled opposition kill disadvantaged subjects-of-empire here". In a climate where the primary slander against you in the first place is that you are unintelligible from a Republican, when the secondary slander against you is that you're forming a uniparty with right-wingers, why would you phrase a threat like this that only makes it sound more like you peckerwood yankees are in bed together?

I fuckin hate Amerikans, I swear to god. Whatever happens to us, we deserve if Kamala gets in. Hell, even if she doesn't.

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 33 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I swear I am more JDPON pilled every day. Not because I don't think the USA has revolutionary potential but because dear god someone needs to end this miserable nation ASAP.

[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 30 points 3 weeks ago

Not because I don't think the USA has revolutionary potential but because dear god someone needs to end this miserable nation ASAP.

I've been in a state of both for the past four years, and honestly? I'm not betting on that feeling subsiding anytime soon.

[–] GoodGuyWithACat@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago

That makes perfect sense. The Democrats (maybe intentionally?) keep POC, women, queer, and trans folk on such an insecure position that they never feel safe. Instead of making drastic change while they are in power, the Dems only make changes that can instantly be undone by their Republican partners.

[–] Crucible@hexbear.net 51 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It breaks liberals brains to learn that there are people to their left when their entire political spectrum is hitler to bernie, so to maintain their sense of moral superiority which defines their relationship to their politics they have to bend and twist their brains to make actual leftists into worse people

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 48 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's pure cynicism.

They believe the genocide is unstoppable and inevitable, so they write it off as an issue entirely. I've literally been told "genocide is not on the ballot" on multiple occasions. Because of the structural issues with US elections we can't stop the genocide by voting PSL, or Green, or staying home. In their minds they don't see the point of not voting for the lesser of two genicidiers.

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 46 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Genocide is on the ballot, most of the ballot is genocide! It is a ballot dripping in blood! GRaarggh!

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[–] Angel@hexbear.net 31 points 3 weeks ago

Appeal to futility type beat

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 47 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

They're making the choice to sacrifice Palestinians for their own comfort. By refusing to go along with that, we force them to confront the fact that it is a choice, that they're willingly making themselves complicit in genocide for their own gain. That's why they hate us.

[–] very_poggers_gay@hexbear.net 30 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I’m paraphrasing a comment I saw elsewhere, but every time the Vote Blue type evokes some fake moral superiority that leftists have (e.g., “You think you’re more moral, but XYZ”), they are just telling on themself that they know they are morally wrong. They know their vote is not a moral act - they might even know they’re supporting something that contradicts their moral code - and they hate that we see that.

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[–] Stolen_Stolen_Valor@hexbear.net 47 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

My response to people who say “if we don’t vote for Kamala then X will happen to Y here at home…” has just been “Why can’t she do both?” If they continue after that then I just say “If the price for my rights is thousands of dead Palestinians, I refuse to bargain with the devil.”

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 45 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

At which point they're all "Well if you want to virtue signal from your moral high horse go ahead, meanwhile I am doing the realistic, practical calculation of a truly gigantic political mind! you see, if 9 incredibly improbable legislative reforms are passed, then we can roll back 50% of this genocide in a mere 12 terms!"

Yes, Yes I am on the moral fucking high horse of "No genocide" why the fuck aren't you this is a horse everyone who isn't so evil you can't use their first name to name children anymore should have!

[–] Stolen_Stolen_Valor@hexbear.net 37 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

this is my “basic level humanity horse” actually my moral high horse was killed by Elizabeth Warren

[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 27 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Hillary worked my moral high horse to death on the farms of the Arkansas Governor's mansion; I had to steal this one from a lib who wasn't using it.

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago

Mask of the Bourgoisie slips "Hey you better put that back on it was only supposed to slip for a moment"

Inhuman Bourgosie throws mask in gasoline, lights it on fire, does little inhuman dance

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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 46 points 3 weeks ago

Honestly I'm not sure I'm even really processing how Libs are behaving right now. Like I'm pretty sure I'm in some kind of denial after the Libs derailed the uprising in '20 and killed MeToo, Abolish the Police, minimum wage, and public healthcare, plus they ended all attempts to even slow Covid down, and now they're proudly, openly committing genocide in front of the whole world.

It's too much. It's Fascism with bottomless mimosas.

[–] Yeat@hexbear.net 42 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

It’s also very funny (not actually) because what is Harris going to do for LGBTQ people? Not that her or any Democrat’s symbolic rhetoric mean anything but have the words “transgender” even come out of her mouth this campaign?

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 46 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Zero states had banned gender affirming care when Trump was president. Under Biden, more than 20 have. He has done absolutely nothing for the people in those states.

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[–] GrumpigPoopBalls@hexbear.net 40 points 3 weeks ago

nah they cut all of the actually good empty promises from the platform this year and replaced them with tough border measures and warmongering so that 17 republicans in suburban georgia would think about voting for Harris before deciding to go with trump

[–] Jenniferrr@hexbear.net 28 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

No literally it's going to be "Not actively take away trans healthcare" so it's a hostage situation.

I'll be honest as a trans woman I'm pretty nervous for Republicans to take power, as a self interested person. Dems clearly won't do anything to help though and if the supreme court makes some ruling they won't fight it.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 40 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

The thing I don't see people saying enough is that there will be elections after Trump, and a vote for third parties that allows Trump to win is much less damaging in the long term than a vote that enables the rightward slide of the Democrats.

[–] JayTreeman@hexbear.net 28 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

The biggest argument against this is that they think there won't be elections after Trump.

[–] macabrett@lemmy.ml 26 points 3 weeks ago

The biggest problem is their mushy baby brains

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[–] Deadend@hexbear.net 37 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

The blue MAGA people also screamed in rage at us for months and years about any sort of leftward movement on policies and demanded VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO before Biden or Harris even had any 2024 policies in place.

If you want to play electoralism games.. you need to say “if you want my vote - Do This” Instead all of these Blue MAGA fuckers went “you have my vote coconut brat queen, but also please do these policies!”

Which gave Harris explicit permission to run as far right wing as possible to try and pick off Trump supporters who only support Trump because they legitimately think he has some good ideas but don’t like him but would have voted for him, which is such an extremely small group of weirdos consisting entirely of Dick Cheney and his daughter.

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[–] REgon@hexbear.net 34 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

I don't get how I can see people well into their 50's talking about voting for the "lesser evil." I always think of this Hunter S. Thompson quote:

That's the real issue this time," he said. "Beating Nixon. It's hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years."

The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but "regrettably necessary" holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?

Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we've gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.

That's from Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail from 1972
50 years ago that was a tired argument. 50 years!

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[–] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 34 points 3 weeks ago

The mental gymnastics are relatively simple, it’s:

  1. It’s not genocide
  2. If it is, it’s by accident
  3. If it’s not, they deserved it
  4. Trump is literally hitler I’m shaking and pissing this is the most important election of our lives

Most people don’t even reach step 1 because they’re American and completely subconsciously dismiss the idea that foreign people exist or matter at all.

[–] egg1918@hexbear.net 34 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

But then they lesser evil by going "Well if we don't vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here."

I saw that video this morning of her refusing to say anything in defense of us. They don't even have this bullshit any more!

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[–] deforestgump@hexbear.net 33 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

No. Most people pay attention to politics for (maybe) 3 months every four years, then pick their favorite flavor candidate.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 30 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Ever met a "centrist" who deliberately votes for one party's downticket but another party's presidential candidate for "balance?" Many such cases. i-love-not-thinking

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[–] axont@hexbear.net 32 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

The gambit that liberals are trying to sell me on makes no sense. The presumption is that Trump would continue or exaggerate the genocide. Whereas a Harris administration would simply continue the genocide or maybe possibly have a possibility of maybe ending the genocide if we all ask really nicely.

Yeah except why am I going to trust an administration currently doing genocide to change their minds later? Voting for Harris is an endorsement of her current platform, which involves collaboration with Israel and no proposed alternatives. All of her talk about ceasefire is just talking, the Biden administration has done Jack and shit to actually accomplish this. The weapons shipments to Israel continue, the Biden admin celebrated Sinwar's death.

Libs are also saying we wouldn't be allowed to protest for Palestinian rights under a Trump presidency. Bruh where have they been for the past year? Have they missed all the cops dragging students out of colleges? Have they missed that associating with BDS is a crime in some states, like Texas where I live?

Absolute child brained people who only care about their own personal comfort

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[–] GoodGuyWithACat@hexbear.net 32 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Idk, I'm not shocked by it at all. It's Western chauvinism, plain and simple. Plenty of women, POC, queer, and trans people are getting on board because they're still part of the imperial west. To recognize that American elections are political theater would require them to completely disregard everything they've been raised to believe. And Trump is very flagrant about undermining the traditional election pageantry, especially after January 6th. They are bought into the system and the system now requires blood sacrifice, so they'll stomach the bloodletting to appease angry gods in hopes for a blessing.

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[–] RiotDoll@hexbear.net 32 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (9 children)

Nobody is really dealing with the fact that rhetoric and demographics != policy and action.

Republicans are pretty unpalatable unless you're a hog hooting for immigrant and queer death, and people are just kind of assuming that, of course, the other team won't do anything bad, and will do the good things, because they have the correct demographic support, and the rhetoric at times gestures vaguely to something nicer and less fascist, or at least tries to let a voter infer whatever they need to in order to deliver support, right?

People are pretty rightly scared, they should be, and they literally have no tools for understanding a world where a vote isn't a solution. Because Americans have limited understanding of non-electoral organizing, limited time because of work and survival, and I think we're reaching this point where solutions are so ugly, and so outside of anything anybody in living memory understands, that it might as well be like showing a Westworld host a picture of the outside world - It's just not going to seem like anything. There's an ontological break where voting has to work.

This is what's happening on the ground.

On the organizing level, the ghouls are just playing to the emotions, anxieties, and fears of their constituent demographics. Republicans are integrating with their extremists, and democrats are suppressing theirs. This creates a balance that will inevitably empower the far right, and the democrats are fine with this because their bosses are the same people.

The rhetoric is insane because the moment is insane.

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[–] CleverOleg@hexbear.net 31 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I'm going mad, I really am. How can people be streamed genocide live on CNN and just say "well, I guess we're ok with genocide now!"

I have seen plenty of Americans (the more right-leaning ones, admittedly) who will say it’s a genocide but that if Gazans didn’t want to be genocided then they shouldn’t have attacked Israel on Oct 7.

Is the US public even human?!

No, not really. This is what 20+ years of dehumanization of Arab and Muslim people will do to your brain. But also, Americans really struggle with being able to accept reality outside of the geographical United States. They are so ill-informed and incurious about what happens around the world I genuinely do not trust any polls regarding things like the genocide in Gaza. When 90% of Americans don’t even know basic, objective facts about the situation what do their opinions actually mean?

This extreme ignorance does not, of course, prevent Americans from expressing their opinions about foreign matters and believing their own opinions to be inviolably correct.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

if Gazans didn’t want to be genocided then they shouldn’t have attacked Israel on Oct 7.

I hear a lot of "But what did they expect?" from liberals. People really have learned nothing in the last 23 years.

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[–] CoolerOpposide@hexbear.net 31 points 3 weeks ago

Is anyone else utterly mystified by the Vote Blue rhetoric this election?

Not me. I already know liberals are stupid

[–] vegeta1@hexbear.net 31 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

Libs say there will be less genocide from a candidate that doesn't even believe there is a genocide going on monke-ruserious

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[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 29 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Personally I really like the whole: Republicans are the ‘Big Bad‘ that will destroy the country, end reproductive rights, start a war on LGBTQ+, end democracy, be the second coming of hitler etc…. And also we’re going to reach across the isle and have a republican in our government too. It’s like wtf? Are these guys bad? Or do you want to work with them? Which is it? I know that once we drop the keyfabe they’re all the same, perusing the same material and class interests, but their outward messaging is so incoherent. No wonder it doesn’t exactly resonate.

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[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 29 points 3 weeks ago

Is the US public even human?!

bugs-no

Death to America

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 27 points 3 weeks ago

The idea that Trump would do something that would be worse than the Dems learning genocide is completely okay is weird to me.
Like if the Dems get in while committing a genocide, why would one think they'd ever get better? If the line isn't drawn at genocide then there is no line and the dems will know they don't even got to pretend anymore.

On top of that it's wild to me how many people don't wrap their head around the concept that voting legitimises the government. The US frequently uses "democracy" and amount of voters and so on to justify it's foreign (and domestic to a lesser extent) policy. US politicians talk about representing their constituents, they talk about their voters, they use these things to make themselves accepted as rulers. The less people that vote for them the better.

On top of all that it's weird to see libs at the same time comprehend long(er) term thinking - "vote for Kamala so we at least have four years to organize/hope for a better candidate" and at the same time be able to understand why someone might vote third party, despite that candidate not being able to win.
Or its not weird, its standard doublethink, but it's fucking frustrating.

[–] crispy_lol@hexbear.net 27 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I watched this tik tok that hit the top page of reddit where it was a lib making fun of leftists not voting for genocide and they jerked themselves off over making the point that “uh yeah honey, there will be a genocide whether trump or Kamala wins but Kamala will be better for your real financial situation”

Yeah they’re built different lmfao their brains are room temp potato soup

https://red.ngn.tf/r/TikTokCringe/s/SwaMOgN7wV

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