this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
218 points (88.1% liked)

World News

39046 readers
4082 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hamas is not "exclusively" targeting Israeli civilians. Or do you think they are avoiding military targets? Israel also targets Palestinian civilians, and willingly accepts Israeli civilians as casualties. Literally everything you said applies ten-fold to Israel.

[–] avater@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

well they are. Of course they also attack military personnel but their attacks on civilians are also directly targeted at them, there are not casualties like the civilians in the israelian attacks, which of course does not justifies these!

[–] mutch@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago

Maybe exclusively isn't the right word then

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Israel absolutely targets civilians, and if you don't believe that they do, you are willfully blind. There are interviews with soldiers joking about shooting out the knees of protestors. International findings that Israel has deliberately targeted/killed journalists. Hell, they bombed refugees on a road they told them to take! Even if you absolutely refuse to acknowledge any of this, the idea that bombing a hospital or school, when you know that the ratio of civilians to combatants there is 100:1, is somehow morally stronger than if there were no combatants at all, is a ridiculous position to take.

[–] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So when a soldier takes the initiative to do something horrible it’s all of israel that it’s at fault. But we need to be very careful about distinguishing between hamas terrorists and palestinians. Don’t you think that seems inconsistent?

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The Israeli soldier is enacting violence on behalf of the Israeli state. Hamas is doing the same on behalf of the Palestinian state. Is there a pattern of such behavior from Israeli soldiers? Are there appropriate consequences applied in such cases? The answers are yes, and no, respectively. This isn't just "rogue soldiers", it is a matter of policy.

If Hamas is a "terrorist" organization, then so is the Israeli government. Neither cares to distinguish between combatants and noncombatants. On balance, my sympathy lies with the Palestinian people, relegated to shrinking ghettoes, while a colonial force imports settlers from all over the globe to illegally occupy their homes and farms.

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas is also a "state" in that they are a democratically elected political organization that has a monopoly on violence in Gaza. That's the definition of a "state."

However they also engage in terrorism. Kind of a two-fer.

Israel, otoh does not technically engage in terrorism. Instead, their violence against civilians only acts to further the goals and status quo of Hamas. Terrorism by definition is a political act of violence to effect change.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I fail to see how Hamas is a terrorist organization, and the Israeli government isn't. The difference to me seems purely down to PR.

[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Did you hear the part where he said Hamas has a monopoly on violence in Gaza lmfao

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Jesus Christ I actually glossed over that part somehow.

[–] GenEcon@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas goal is to kill all jews. Israels goal is to kill all Hamas fighters. That doesn't add up with your claim.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is certainly convenient to frame this conflict purely in terms of racial hatred. In that case you may want to take a look at all the racist and exterminationist rhetoric that comes from Israeli politicians and settlers. Israel's ultimate goal is annexation of all Palestinian territories.

[–] galloog1@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is how Hamas frames it. I wouldn't consider it convenient from Israel's pov.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

It's very convenient for Israel to pretend that Hamas has no reason other than racism to hate Israel.