this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2024
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

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It's a tale as old as time of Anarchists absolutely shitting all over communists but god damn I hateeeee it. No self awareness

Link to Instagram post

Edit: to be clear I don't have a problem with Anarchists, just seems like very often MLs are met with so much vitriol with people they could collaborate with. Just sucks. Stupid interner

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[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 80 points 4 months ago

Beware of any organization that has goals or is organized or is trying to accomplish anything

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 64 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I'm part of a communist org and I don't exaggerate when I say that black nationalists have been more friendly and willing to work with us than anarchists have.

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 58 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm black, and I've generally aligned myself with anarcho-communism ideologically, but I eventually reached a point in which the "anarcho-" part is silent, and I simply just say "communist" if asked. I'm not a fan of this sectarian bullshit, I find people who use the term "tankie" unironically to be cringe, and this fight about authoritarianism has always just been extremely unhelpful I find. So as someone who would say I'm an anarchist, I don't doubt what you're saying here at all. I'm so tired of it because, ironically enough, people like the one who made that original Instagram post are seeming concerned the most with aesthetics instead of actual leftist causes. By that, I mean they sound like they're more concerned about their label of "anarchist" and being seen as a "non-authoritarian" than anything else.

[–] ratboy@hexbear.net 32 points 4 months ago

Seeing stuff like this ig post just reinforces to me that when people say "Anarchists and Communists hate eachother" it really just means that Anarchists hate communists lol. Most people critiquing the post come with actual thoughtful responses and information...whereas a lot of the people defending it just seem to be moving goalposts, posing gotcha questions, uttering American anticommunist talking points and just completely side stepping the fact that the post is OBVIOUSLY speaking generally about Marxists, yet they argue that its about "specific groups only". Like if I were someone who knew nothing about communism, my reaction to the post would be "I need to steer clear of tankies" and not go much deeper than that. Super harmful imo and it sucks because I feel like there is much more in common between communism and anarchism foundationally than not

[–] Hello_Kitty_enjoyer@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I find people who use the term "tankie" unironically to be cringe

I identify as a tankie

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 22 points 4 months ago

Oh, I apologize. I take it this is you: soviet-chad

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 25 points 4 months ago

yep same here.

[–] CoolerOpposide@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

Very nearly 100% of the time this is the case. I believed myself to be an ancom for a very long time and organized as such and never felt like anything was like… actually happening? Not that we didn’t have events, but literally people could not cooperate with other groups at all. From what I could tell, it was roughly the same within other groups as well.

Eventually joined a pan-left org and it was immediately 1000x more productive and with significantly healthier discourse when there was any

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 52 points 4 months ago (1 children)

WHAT THE FUCK DOES AUTHORITARIAN MEAN YOU PEOPLE NEVER DEFINE IT ITS JUST AN ADJECTIVE MEANT TO SIGNIFY "BAD FOREIGN GOVERNMENT" ITS DUMB AS FUCK INTERROGATE YOUR OWN VOCABULARY

[–] davel@hexbear.net 23 points 4 months ago

Hannah Arendt defined it while on the CIA’s payroll.

[–] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 47 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I personally think of the anti-sectarianism rule as more of a "play nice with each other" rule. I think people forget, the whole reason there are sects is because there are actual strong disagreements between tendencies, sometimes intractable ones.

I think the enforced cooperation between MLs and anarchists here have caused some people to talk themselves into thinking anarchists are just MLs with punk aesthetics when that's not really true. There's actual conflict between the two ideologies and they tend not to get along great everywhere besides here. All for working together when possible but I don't think we should delude ourselves into thinking the two are 100% compatible, if they were they wouldn't be separated in the first place.

[–] healthkick@hexbear.net 50 points 4 months ago

Counterpoint: anarchists whose primary enemy is communists are actually feds

[–] WhatDoYouMeanPodcast@hexbear.net 14 points 4 months ago

Could you elaborate on intractable problems between anarchist and ML ideologies, please? I ask as someone ignorant of the history of the two movements outside of killing aristocrats and Nazis. I recognize a name like Mao and how the central planning government worsened famine conditions and caused excess death. I recognize anarchist concepts like dual power and mutual aid.

I imagine systemic intractability if it came to things like a draft to fight against capitalist powers or the assignment of labor tasks/location. To avoid jokerfication, I have to believe that there are more salient disagreements between the good faith, acting, theory tempered adherents of both ideologies. Opinions about vets helping in struggle? Stealing? Escalating resistance during protest? Electoralism? Powers of a club's electorate? Punishment of group members? Vocel oathes? Religion?

Bonus question: would somebody who has ingested enough Hexbear slop be uniquely equipped in meditating between the polar tendencies of communists or are we spinning our wheels here?

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 43 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I identify as an anarchist. I see it both as an aspirational goal--a stateless, classless, non-hierarchical society, which I think we all agree on as the ultimate objective--and as tactical guide in the face of overwhelming capitalism. Self-organized mutual aid and voluntary affinity groups can and do get shit done, even in the absence of any kind of widespread socialist (or even leftist) movement or power structure. Most of the anarchists I know in real life are more focused on actually trying to make the world better than on sectarian struggle, but I think the ones who care more about purity and less about praxis are more numerous and vociferous online. The good ones are out doing shit, not making Instagram series. The same is true for most MLs I've met: maybe the difference in philosophy will matter at some point way down the road when revolution is in progress, but that's so far in the future that it almost doesn't bear thinking about, much less starting a fight over. For now, we all have exactly the same goals.

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago

an aspirational goal--a stateless, classless, non-hierarchical society, which I think we all agree on as the ultimate objective

um, isn't that the same as communism

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago

This sums up my exact thoughts 100-com

[–] FloridaBoi@hexbear.net 41 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There are literal children arguing in those comments. That whole post is rage bait

[–] ratboy@hexbear.net 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I am convinced that every person who posts in an Instagram comment section, good takes or not, are bots. Except me....unless?

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Except me....unless?

Redfash SeeSeePee bot confirmed! You're on comnuno-PutlerXi's payroll!

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 38 points 4 months ago

1st Paragraph: "Hmm yeah I can agree there's some issues with people being overly dogmatic when we don't really know what will lead to a successful revolution in a modern imperialist country"

2nd Paragraph: gulag

[–] CoolerOpposide@hexbear.net 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

fedposting Folx, I’m really worried that some of y’all are not talking about the real problem at hand, the people fighting for a Palestinian state! What they should really be fighting for is the abolition of the Palestinian state so they can be truly free.

“What? You’re asking me to condemn the Israeli state? I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. Do you know how they treat gay people in Palestine btw?”

[–] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 34 points 4 months ago

I keep seeing this 'One-size-fits-all' as an insult. Yes, in fact, having a plan and sticking to the plan with moderate variation is a good idea. Noone has ever said that 'one-size-fits-all', but some plans have actually idk, accomplished something?

[–] OutrageousHairdo@hexbear.net 32 points 4 months ago (17 children)

The class war is a war like any other, and most wars I know of were won by having a clear plan of battle and strong leadership.

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[–] Hello_Kitty_enjoyer@hexbear.net 31 points 4 months ago (1 children)

our enemies use guns so using guns is bad don't use guns also don't drink water

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[–] betelgeuse@hexbear.net 31 points 4 months ago

"I'm just gonna stop any attempt at a scientific understanding of capital and power dynamics to make sure that communists don't organize too many people at once."

[–] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)

they are your closest allies if you can reach them by UNDERSTANDING their instincts against "authoritarianism" (and how that is inculcated by western propaganda) and treating it as a positive impulse that is being channeled negatively by capitalists against communists instead of against the capitaist class as a way to get natural allies to fight each other and never gain power.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 28 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just so happens all of them channel it negatively in the same way that supports western imperialist narratives

[–] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

thats the result of western propganda on their brains.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Feel like shit just want 'em back

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, L_S had brain worms but they were entertaining brain worms

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago

When you're the one watching on maybe, but being on the recieving end of them is bewildering. In my case it was the broken markov chain bot behavior when they got banned from news for some reason and started spam-pinging the news mods across all the comms until they got told to knock it off

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] Findom_DeLuise@hexbear.net 14 points 4 months ago

No moms no masters!

[–] NoLeftLeftWhereILive@hexbear.net 24 points 4 months ago

Oh boy it's so bad... and sadly this reads like most of the stuff I ever hear from revisionists around these parts.

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago
[–] Leon_Frotsky@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

almost sectarian posted and then thought about it for a bit and decided that i was about to post cringe

[–] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Maybe they should offer some answers to people’s problems so they wouldn’t be drawn to tankies? Seems a bit easier to do than to complain about them

[–] jack@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago

I am in there absolutely battling

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