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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by ratboy@hexbear.net to c/politics@hexbear.net

I'm trying to learn more about the Russia/Ukraine conflict. In the articles that I find that seem to be critical of Ukraine, there are a few that are right wing that seem to have similar viewpoints as what I've read on here or in the more leftist articles.

For example this piece from National Interest, or this from the CATO institute.

There are others that aren't flagged as right wing that are critical, but it's just got me wondering, why would right wing politicians/publications perceive these things similarly to how some communists would when the ideologies of both are so extremely opposite?

Disclaimer: I'm not pro-ukraine at all, but in my search for info that's not super pro-Ukraine propaganda, this is the stuff that comes up for me

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[-] ksynwa_from_lemmygrad@hexbear.net 53 points 10 months ago

"USA provoked Russia into invading Ukraine" is not a communist talking point. It's just a straight up fact. And it's a fact that the American mainstream thought denies. Some interest groups will use this fact to delegitimise the current ruling party which is what is happening here. In the end, funding the war ended up pretty badly for the US with Europe somehow ending up worse off than Russia and the Global South rejecting the American line of sanctioning Russia. Republicans who want to win the next election are going to use facts as a cudgel when it is convdnient for them.

[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 30 points 10 months ago

"We'll stop buying raw materials to punish our semi-colony for being uppity" was pretty idiotic course of action from the start, no wonder that EU is having economic problems. Literally seems like they don't understand how their economic model actually works.

[-] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 45 points 10 months ago

Libs support ukkkraine. Conservatives love owning libs, so they stumble into a correct idea.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago

Really is as simple as that in this case

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 39 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

American fascists believe that the US should team up with Russia (which, for all its faults, is still a Christian and “anti-woke” nation) to take down China. American liberals believe that the USA is powerful enough to take on the entire world at the same time. Both are utterly deluded and are basically like the Eye of Sauron just after the ring has fallen into Mount Doom—looking around frantically, lashing out at everything. (Sorry for the Harry Potter-esque reference.)

Communists are against all imperialist wars. Fascists are only against the war in Ukraine—they’re completely in agreement with liberals when it comes to genociding Palestine. This is why, on the surface, communists and fascists coincidentally agree on Russia/Ukraine. Communists believe that Russia deserves critical support for fighting imperialism, even if it is far from a flawless country.

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[-] privatized_sun@hexbear.net 37 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Conservatives: (incoherent false consciousness attempts to critique the contradictions of class society by talking about "globalism" or Soros or whatever)

Marxists: (less incoherent because they have Leninist critiques of finance imperialism which drives such actions such as CIA coups in east Europe to overthrow states)

[-] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 22 points 10 months ago

less incoherent

Bold coming from a BMF alt

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 32 points 10 months ago

Not understanding BMF posts is a skill issue

[-] Kaplya@hexbear.net 29 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As much as the “realist” faction (Mearscheimer, for example) sounded like the more rational ones, ultimately they’re wrong in their calculations.

Post-2009 global financial crisis saw Europe‘s rapid industrial recovery through bridging its economic ties with Russia/China to get away from the American sphere of influence, just as the US capital was hit hard by the financial crisis.

In other words, post-2009 America has been so thoroughly de-industrialized and its financial base weakened that it does not have the ability to take on China without taking out Europe first. If Europe throws its weight behind China during an ongoing US-China conflict, it very well could tilt the balance of power towards China, which is bad for America.

The war in Ukraine is America’s war against Europe, its imperialist rival. It really has less to do with Ukraine/Russia than Nord Stream and the expanding economic ties between Europe and Eurasia. The neocons, unfortunately, made the correct move: America’s only chance to take on China is to devour the European capital first.

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[-] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 27 points 10 months ago

There are several reasons that left and right opinion meet on this issue in particular:

  • Right wing pundits see social conservatism (anti-LGBT etc.) in post-USSR Russia and see kindred spirits

  • A specific faction of neocons in the administration and war machine see China as far more of a threat than Russia, and want peace or even an alliance with Russia to target China and break up the nascent Eurasian bloc - this includes rabid defense ghouls like John Bolton and cold-blooded analysts like (rest in piss) Henry Kissenger

  • Pro-America realists who see that the US Empire is obviously taking a severe beating over this - and while the heartland can stay afloat by cannibalizing its European allies, the whole situation is badly weakening the NATO bloc as a whole - such as John Mearsheimer

  • Pure and simple contrarianism: the Democrats support Ukraine, so the Republicans must oppose it

Inside the Empire there are always plenty of people who are evil, but do actually understand how the world works. When the stars align, they can make perfectly cogent, accurate arguments in favor of the same things we want, but as soon as the subject changes they switch straight back to lies, disinformation and controlled "misunderstanding".

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[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Because right wingers have very few actual principles, which means they're free to pick up, parade around, and discard almost any talking point at any time. They don't care about the truth of anything they say, only it's effectiveness, so of course they would steal an effective critique from the left (again) to own the libs with, because libs have no answer to it and they themselves don't have to grapple with any of it's implications.

Of course, we want an end to the Ukranian war because it was a fascist imperial venture from the word go, while the right largely wants an end to the Ukranian war because they can't stand to be fighting against their fellow whites when Big Bad China is right there.

[-] RollaD20@hexbear.net 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

liberals of all stripes (conservative or otherwise) do not really hold steadfast lines on these topics; their opinions shift with the breeze. So right now conservatives have a position which aligns with communists but as soon as it is convenient or materially beneficial to switch to the pro-ukraine side they will. As others have stated there are a few ideological things going on for supporting russia at least, but I really think that the calculus comes down to cynical political convenience.

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[-] WittyProfileName2@hexbear.net 16 points 10 months ago

Reactionary ideologies exist as a sorta defence mechanism against the overthrow of the dominant ideology (you can see this in monarchist ideologies during the rise of capitalism and again in fascist reaction to prevailing communist/anarchist currents).

These ideologies reinforce the system by preying on the people discontented with the current status quo to prevent them radicalising into a revolutionary ideology.

Consequently, the extremes of reaction take the aesthetics of common critiques in capitalism and direct them into a target that the capitalist class would be willing to sacrifice if it meant the system keeps chugging along. Y'know, when Ferdinand Kronawetter said: "antisemitism is the socialism of fools", that sorta thing.

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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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