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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by ratboy@hexbear.net to c/politics@hexbear.net

I'm trying to learn more about the Russia/Ukraine conflict. In the articles that I find that seem to be critical of Ukraine, there are a few that are right wing that seem to have similar viewpoints as what I've read on here or in the more leftist articles.

For example this piece from National Interest, or this from the CATO institute.

There are others that aren't flagged as right wing that are critical, but it's just got me wondering, why would right wing politicians/publications perceive these things similarly to how some communists would when the ideologies of both are so extremely opposite?

Disclaimer: I'm not pro-ukraine at all, but in my search for info that's not super pro-Ukraine propaganda, this is the stuff that comes up for me

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[-] duderium@hexbear.net 39 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

American fascists believe that the US should team up with Russia (which, for all its faults, is still a Christian and “anti-woke” nation) to take down China. American liberals believe that the USA is powerful enough to take on the entire world at the same time. Both are utterly deluded and are basically like the Eye of Sauron just after the ring has fallen into Mount Doom—looking around frantically, lashing out at everything. (Sorry for the Harry Potter-esque reference.)

Communists are against all imperialist wars. Fascists are only against the war in Ukraine—they’re completely in agreement with liberals when it comes to genociding Palestine. This is why, on the surface, communists and fascists coincidentally agree on Russia/Ukraine. Communists believe that Russia deserves critical support for fighting imperialism, even if it is far from a flawless country.

[-] pmarcilus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 10 months ago

I don't think there's even a need of critical support to Russia as the later is as eager as the USA to expand and export its imperialist core, that is the capital, to the said buffer states. These imperialist viewpoints are disguise as "geopolitical interests" for the so called Russian government without genuinely asking for the consent from the Ukrainian people. The fact that Putin and his gang denies the concept of Ukrainian nation is an evidence that it is nothing but a fascist state. Not saying that whatever Ukrainian government doing is great, as we know that Zelensky banning on the Russian language and the employment of the Nazis in their programme are well known to the leftist circle. I'm simply treating it as a proxy war between two decaying imperialist powers fighting against each other. I only throw my pity on the Ukrainian and Russian people for their suffering in this meaningless war.

[-] ksynwa_from_lemmygrad@hexbear.net 24 points 10 months ago

What capital is Russia exporting to which buffer states?

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 10 points 10 months ago

They don't know, they're full of shit. Russia is famously low capital

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 14 points 10 months ago

even so, supporting the imperialist that is not currently the global hegemon is the correct move towards weakening imperialism, no? obviously the only reason russia (its ruling class at least) is fighting the US is because it wants the same status, or at least similar geopolitical dominance of its region, but it is still fighting the US and its interests all the same. aren't 2 competing imperialists interfering with each other's imperialist goals better for the rest of the world than 1 unified imperialist coalition that can sweep aside any and all resistance with ease?

this is what we mean by critical support, we are critical of the theory and politics of russia, but conditionally and temporarily condone in some senses particular actions by russia against US global hegemony. if russia was the primary global right-wing hegemon exporting nazi-ism and terror throughout the world instead of the USA the positions would likely be reversed. even if you think russia is just a less powerful version of all those things the US is, we would prefer to see our enemies fight each other rather than team up.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I don't think there's even a need of critical support to Russia as the later is as eager as the USA to expand and export its imperialist core, that is the capital, to the said buffer states.

That's not what imperialist core means (phrase is imperial core and it refers to a region and populace, not capital). Imperialism requires a lot more than simple export of capital. They also are not imperialist in this case, just as Saddam Hussein wasn't imperialist to resist US invasion. Russia has plenty of domestic areas for investment and are famously the lowest capital-to-asset ratio in the capitalist world. Russia is not capital rich. They aren't imperialist. Stop repeating this Liberal lie and misanalysis. Russia's economy resembles that of a colonized resource nation, not an imperialist financialized economy. They are anti-imperialist and destroying imperialist outposts. They are allied with all AES. Wake the fuck up and get on the right side of the line, I'll be celebrating when Ukraine's fascist junta is destroyed and NATO is kicked out of Eastern Europe.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

American fascists believe that the US should team up with Russia (which, for all its faults, is still a Christian and “anti-woke” nation) to take down China

This is absolute delusion that will never happen unless Russia is regime changed. Russia and China are closer than ever before, and Russia and America are more alienated than ever before. 0% chance of this in the short to medium term.

The conservatives I've been hearing being anti-Ukraine aren't fascists, they are "realist" more moderate conservatives like The Duran and Mearsheimer. They actually talk positively about China and don't buy into the sinophobic fear mongering.

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 10 points 10 months ago

If they lack principles (i.e., if they are liberals or fascists or conservatives or libertarians or whatever you want to call them) I can’t trust them.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

Have fun with your pure anti-war movement of 15 communists

[-] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 14 points 10 months ago

There's no anti-war movement at all in the US, pure or impure.

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Communist purists were the only ones who knew that WW1 was a bad idea right from the beginning. One of them ended up being the first premier of the USSR.

And anyway, I didn’t say that these guys you mentioned were wrong. But because they lack a dialectical materialist analysis, they can only be right by accident. Like, I’ve listened to Scott Ritter talk about Ukraine and appreciate his view, but the guy seems to think that there is nothing wrong with American imperialism, just that the “corrupt globalist elites” are doing it poorly.

this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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