this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
121 points (98.4% liked)

World News

39019 readers
2439 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The unexpectedly meaty win for controversial, hard-right politician Geert Wilders in Wednesday's general election in the Netherlands set international headlines on fire.

Right-wing nationalists across Europe rushed to congratulate the populist politician, sometimes dubbed the Dutch Trump - partly for his dyed, bouffant-like hairdo, and partly for his famously firebrand rhetoric.

Geert Wilders' publicly expressed views - including linking Muslim immigration with terrorism and calling for a ban on mosques and the Quran - are so provocative that he has been under tight police protection since 2004.

Wilders was convicted of inciting discrimination, although later acquitted, and he was refused entry to the UK back in 2009.

But Europe's far right believes their views have now become more mainstream.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] qooqie@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (13 children)

So we often don’t get to see politics from Europe because of how loud American politics are. But what’s up with the spread of extremist right wing ideology over yonder?

[–] ahornsirup@sopuli.xyz 53 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Same thing that's up with it in the US. They offer simple "solutions" to complex problems, and (at least in the UK and Germany, not sure about the Netherlands) they're fuelled by right-wing media conglomerates.

[–] runwaylights@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's indeed also the case in the Netherlands. The use of gross oversimplification for complex problems, but it gets you votes. Too many people fall for it.

But his rhetoric is crazy. It's filled with racism and hatred and meanwhile he wants to stop funding Ukraine, slash all cultural subsidies, stop climate policies and leave the EU. Idiot.

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 10 points 11 months ago

Also, what a lot of people seem to be missing is that this only works because of rampant hypocrisy among traditional parties. They promise time and again to make life better, to make work pay, to do this and that but they always fail because they’re neoliberals - whether they are lying or just fundamentally wrong doesn’t really matter.

This then allows far right wingers to swoop in and use a lot of the same underlying logic the traditional parties use, but without the hypocrisy. They just need to swap the hypocrisy out for hate towards minority groups.

This is a lot easier than the alternative left wing parties offer, which is fundamentally not aligned with the traditional parties in the West.

[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 21 points 11 months ago (7 children)

I'm Dutch and afaik right-wing media doesn't play a role. The reason is quite simple, it's because the previous coalitions lead by the neoliberal VVD have consistently fucked everyone who isn't rich (and even some who are). Especially the crises that they've caused have completely eroded trust in the previously big parties. Some of these issues I'll lost below.

In the northern province of Groningen houses started getting damaged die to earthquakes caused by government-funded natural gas extraction. The whole country got rich of of this for decades, but when the people of Groningen needed money to repair their homes they sometimes had to fight for years to get anything.

The tax agency started incorrectly marking people as fraudsters for claiming certain benefits, which often put these people in debt for thousands of euros. This has ruined the life's of hundreds of people, yet the government initially just ignored it. While these people lost everything they had, the government seemed to do everything it could to avoid paying or helping. At some point they did start paying and pretending to help, but for many victims this was simply too little to late.

And then there's plenty of other issues that erroded trust as well. Years of ignoring "the nitrogen problem" until it was too late and lead to all kinds of issues. The farmers (who are the biggest cause of this issue) suddenly become the target of the government, which they obviously didn't like. This caused huge protests and the rapid growth of parties like the BBB and probably also the PVV. And there's also a housing crisis, where buying houses is impossible.

In short: the previous normal coalitions kept fucking up, until people seemingly had enough. There were other alternatives to the PVV, but apparently voting on a right -wing extremist who has all the ideas is easier than voting left-wing for many people here. I hope the damage stays limited, but this is truly a dark day for our country.

[–] dlatch@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm Dutch and afaik right-wing media doesn't play a role.

I take it you haven't looked at the Telegraaf or PowNews the last months? They definitely played a role.

[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Ongehoord Nederland as well

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] bob_lemon@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Besides simple solutions, they also offer simple culprits for everything that is bad, where the default is usually some form of immigrant. But green/left activists are also a well-received target. Or the EU.

[–] moitoi@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

The same everywhere.

Also, any other party thinks it has to push a neoliberal agenda (except one or two). And, this agenda makes people vote for the far-right at the end.

In the Netherlands, they have the issue with the Mocro mafia and this doesn't help.

[–] JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz 24 points 11 months ago

Russian money and quick solutions to impossible problems, paired with racism and a healthy dose of anti-EU stance (but that's repeating "russian money")

[–] nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Inaction. Like everywhere else, a lot of things go wrong but aren't acted upon for too long because of political impotence or incompetence. Which paves the way for populist sentiment. Netherlands now has a housing crisis, a nitrogen crisis, employment shortage and then there is global warming, inflation and war in Europe.

Things we knew were coming and the sole reason the government didn't do anything was because of the neoliberal idea that the market will solve all problems through the magic of capitalism. This has been true for the past 3 decennia now.

Our saving grace is the EU and many policies and money coming in has been touted as solutions offered by a lot of populist in the east of the EU. Giving them an air of legitimacy. But of course the EU is also the entity that has been spreading the neoliberal ideals and open markets, a single coin. So easy to paint the EU with negative side effects as a boogeyman. Just don't mention the positive and don't offer solutions.

The problem is that far-right populist never have solutions because they see most of the problems coming from within a corruption of culture. So they often ignore fundamental systemic solutions because they are themselves functioning because of the system they are in. Fixing things is directly undermining their right of existence. So a feedback loop is inherently present.

Once you're in it's extremely difficult to get out.

[–] moitoi@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

Things we knew were coming and the sole reason the government didn't do anything was because of the neoliberal idea that the market will solve all problems through the magic of capitalism. This has been true for the past 3 decennia now.

This is the best resumé.

Also, Russia is playing on it.

[–] MonsterMonster@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Look at Trump, he's the same type of right wing nutter. Bullies that ride into power of populism, blaming certain groups of people for everyone's unhappiness. Deliberately stir up discontent into a fervour and then putting forward a simple yet extreme solution. There's your answer. It's happening all over the world including the US.

It's reminiscent of the 1930's Hitler and Mussolini.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

One thing that should be noted, is that Europe's far right and right wing populist problem pre-dates Trump. Often by decades.

Vlaams Blok (later Vlaams Belang), the Freedom Party of Austria, Lega Nord, the UK Independence Party, Law and Justice (Poland), Fidesz (Hungary), Front National (now National Rally), Alternative für Deutschland, etc.

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Voters really really don't like mass immigration.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago

They don't like what they're told about it

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

This might be a factor, but it's far from being the only one. Spain has had a far right resurgence in recent years, which hasn't resulted in a far right party getting more than 13% of votes, but it's dragging the largest right wing party to its positions in matters of tolerance and environmentalism, and the immigration to Spain hasn't been too significant since 2009.

[–] Sebbe@lemmy.sebbem.se 6 points 11 months ago

Far right populists have been gaining popularity all over Europe for many years. It looks like it's only going to get worse before it gets better again.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 34 points 11 months ago (1 children)

While this is bad, it’s not as bad as what’s happening in other European countries. He got 37 seats of the 150 in lower house parliament. He still needs to form a coalition with other parties to govern. He’s the only far right party with significant seats. The other parties that might work with him and have enough seats are all centrists. And the last time the PVV joined a centrist coalition the cabinet fell within a year.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah. English speaking media are used to first past the post political systems, where the largest party wins it all. That's why they're more alarmed than they should be, although it is a very worrying sign for Europe.

[–] dublet@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Them being the biggest party is very much cause for concern. I remember Janmaat's party being just a general political laughing stock. It is not a total disaster. Yet.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

The whole "there's only the winner and the loser" mentality goes way beyond politics in certain societies.

IMHO, even the tendency for seeking consensus in the Dutch society tends to differ from the far too prevalent adversarial spirit in many modern Western societies, especial anglo-saxon ones (certainly at least the US and UK).

[–] agissilver@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This picture was chosen intentionally to make it seem he has horns?

[–] JustMy2c@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago

It is almost impossible to find a good picture tho, he has a hard to love face

[–] AceQuorthon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 11 months ago

He looks like if you took Trumps hair and put it on Jay Leno

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The unexpectedly meaty win for controversial, hard-right politician Geert Wilders in Wednesday's general election in the Netherlands set international headlines on fire.

Geert Wilders' publicly expressed views - including linking Muslim immigration with terrorism and calling for a ban on mosques and the Quran - are so provocative that he has been under tight police protection since 2004.

Far-right Flemish independence leader Tom Van Grieken, who hopes for a similar election breakthrough in Belgium to Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, was quick to conclude: "Parties like ours are on their way in the whole of Europe."

He would join a chorus of voices at the leaders table, including Ms Meloni, taking a hard line on EU migration and asylum policies.

But it would be too simplistic, I believe, to conclude Geert Wilders' election success shows far-right, hard-right, nostalgic nationalist, populist parties - there are so many labels, and this is not a one-size-fits-all debate - are "taking over Europe", as some commentators suggest.

The European Commission would do well not to appear too dismissive of Geert Wilders, and what his election success tells us about political winds blowing across Europe.


The original article contains 883 words, the summary contains 190 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

nostalgic nationalist

I've never heard that term before but it's a fitting description for a lot of political parties.

[–] Barack_Embalmer@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Deontay needs to get his brother

[–] JdW@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Intoletance has originally always been a right wing mainstay and that is why the PVV are lumped in with that. But if you look at their program, apart from the anti-islam rhetoric, they want affordable care and lower the pension age. Clear centrist/left-wing viewpoints. And this is overlooked by the oversimplifying media. Yes, PVV are riding on the wave of anti immigration sentiment. But they reached this level of support by not being fascists like the FvD for example. The old left/right wing nomenclature is not sufficient to describe the ways parties amd society change.

On any case, the foreign media is tarring the PVV voters with the brush of racist extremists, and the reality is much, much more nuanced.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

You do have a point, but one caveat is that far right parties also often pretend to be more moderate than they actually are and not say the quiet bits out loud until they gain power.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

... they want affordable care and lower the pension age. Clear centrist/left-wing viewpoints

They didn't let the CBP check their plans and have shared very little about how they plan to pay for it. Anyone can be in favor of lower pensions, affordable care, no tax raises, and more housing, promises cost nothing.

[–] JdW@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

But that's hardly the point.

Look, I am not saying Wilders is not a creep. But their success right now is despite him and his anti-constitutional viewpoints. There was room for a big populist party with mass appeal and they fill that void. And the media is misrepresenting his voters. I am not one of them, and would never be, but I do know quite a few of people that switched to PVV and they did so because they felt he would work to get the lower middle class and elderly a better standard of living, something all other parties seem to fail to deliver on.

[–] JdW@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I know. But I was not making the point the PVV are not promlematic. Read what I wrote.

My point was that the media is portraying his voters as rabit right-wing bigots, and that is simply not true. dangeourly he managed to appeal to the centre, and people that look for housing, healthcare and spending power without too much interest in his extreme rhetoric.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I've read what you wrote. I meant to say that they can make promises from all across the political spectrum because they never have to actually implement anything. They can appeal to people who want lower pensions, people who want higher pensions and people who want less taxes at the same time.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›