this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023

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Lemmy Moderation Tools

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Welcome

I'm working on a moderation tool to work with Lemmy.

I'm still in early development and discovery. This channel will update the status and respond to questions during development, testing, release, and post-release.

You are encouraged to create posts defining your needs. I also appreciate feedback on status updates. This helps me maintain the right track.

Join us on Matrix!

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jgrim

Still thinking about a start to the project (self.lemmy_mod_tools)

submitted 2 years ago by jgrim to c/lemmy_mod_tools

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Hello,

I'm still reviewing the technical limitations of building this tool.

I'm deciding on one of two paths from the original list. The devs will not have time to do this themselves. The community must act. You can find out why by reading their new blog post.

I had listed six options before. You can review them all on the post Initial thoughts.

Decision

I'm considering Option 1 and Option 4. I'll explain why not for some and why for these two options.

Why nots

Why not 2:
- I've been looking for a project to become more than a side hustle. I believe making this self-hosted could not be monetized properly. My options are donations or charges for the software. Donations are too unpredictable, and charging for a tool to enhance an open-source project feels wrong and unsustainable. It would have to be a charge for the admins of fediverse products who may not be willing to spend money on this tool, especially as Lemmy builds out its features with time.
Why not 3:
- I want to build something part of the fediverse, not just Lemmy. Doing this option makes it directly and strictly for Lemmy. There is the possibility of building additional adapter services; however, that may not be worth the effort.
Why not 5:
- They have stated that they cannot take on any community-requested features. They are working through bugs.
Why not 6;
- Same as "Why no 3", I want to contribute to the fediverse, not just a single application.
- Moderation will need a lot of information and tools to succeed. I don't believe the current Lemmy codebase and database structure are ripe for such a large enhancement.

Why yes

I'll now clarify why I am interested in options 1 and 4.

Why 1
- This would become a potential business. It could be monetized with monthly fees and add-on products. It would be much easier to keep costs aligned with the size of the community wishing to use it.
- I could potentially make this full-time if it grows enough.
Why 4
- I'm calling this the WordPress model. WordPress is completely free to download and install. However, you can pay them to host and maintain it for you. This is much easier for most people. Following this same pattern, I could offer managed hosting for Lemmy and fediverse moderation tools as a subscription.
- It gives people a choice. It's not as greedy a feeling as making a closed-source SaaS. However, this does add complexity to the development. I would probably release the SaaS solution before self-hosted to work out issues.
- I could open-source it and get help from the community.

Why no to yeses

Options 1 and 4 also have their downsides:

Why not 1
- People may not pay for it. A lot of hobbies have been creating their servers. There may be only a handful of large enough servers that would need such a service.
- I'd be counting on the growth of the fediverse and a need for centralized and smart moderation.
- Closed source code. This is against the fediverse and FOSS.
Why not 4
- I don't want to become a product manager. It would be much more efficient for me to develop from the start independently. Then lean on the community for enhancements and fixes. Once it's open, I have to manage a lot of distractions before it's ready for ever-watching eyes.

What about the roadmap and timeline?

I'm still working through the feature set. I think there are some clear winners in what people need. The first release would depend on the model chosen. A feature-rich product would require some financial incentive for me to get it out quicker. It would be difficult to justify hours of my time away from my family to my wife for something that doesn't benefit her or our son.

Next steps

I need to read a bit more into ActivtyPub. I need a better understanding of some things before a path is chosen. I'm also working through the feature requests posted by others. I will create a list of base features and try to release enhancements on a roadmap. I'll next work on a detailed design doc to ensure I don't mix anything. Finally, get coding.

I don't have dates for these items yet. It's been a busy Father's Day weekend. I've also been under the weather for a few days now too. I'll keep you all posted. Please provide feedback here or within the Matrix channel; I will try to watch all the channels there.

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[–] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Best of luck, this isn't going to suit our needs

[–] james_baxter 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Can you elaborate?

[–] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

In short we need long term, permanent solutions. We're more comfortable paying for bounties than for a tool which has no guarantee of continuing to exist or continuing to be developed. We're not opposed to paying for a tool as a stop gap, in lieu of a permanent solution, but it's ultimately not a solution.

I understand the need and desire to be compensated for your work and we want to support any and all work that goes into improving the platform, but divorcing yourself from the platform to offer saas is unfortunately not improving the platform. If we bought in, we'd now be at the mercy of two platforms and could find ourselves scrambling if you ever go down, stop developing, or cease to exist. That's not a risk I'm willing to take.

[–] jgrim 1 points 2 years ago

This is a good point and why I'm hesitant to do it privately. Perhaps following the more WordPress like system. I host or you can host. But if I host, it costs.

[–] jgrim 2 points 2 years ago

Is it the business model or the implementation?

[–] lazyguru 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don’t want to become a product manager

A lot of what you’ve done here already is very much PM work…. Regardless, whatever path you decide, I’m rooting for you

[–] jgrim 2 points 2 years ago

I realize this, haha. But everyone has to be to start a new project. I don't want to distract me once I break ground.

[–] ericjmorey 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I think there could potential business opportunity for providing some standard of moderation as a service. The tools built wouldn't be the thing people pay for. They'd pay for assistance with moderation and giving other federated services assurance that the content of those paying for the service is being actively monitored. The people who would be interested in this service would likely interested in managed hosting as well.

[–] jgrim 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's a great point. I'm not putting the cart before the horse here. I plan to build it; however, I must plan which direction to go. These are just some ideas for keeping the lights on and making it a full-time job if all goes well.

I'm not convinced that providing hosting is best for the community. If there are hundreds of small instances, is that worth it? How long would they pay for something that doesn't grow? Is that adding anything to the community?

I'm just having thoughts and keeping them public to get assistance in direction.

[–] ericjmorey 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If there are hundreds of small instances, is that worth it?

There is value for each instance to maintain its brand and culture apart from the federated whole.

How long would they pay for something that doesn’t grow?

Growth isn't required for value.

Is that adding anything to the community?

A community of communities is added to with new communities.

[–] jgrim 2 points 2 years ago

All very good points. 🤔

I'd just like more feedback from the community. I want to make sure I make something they'd use.

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