this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

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Image description: a screenshot from the Wikipedia page for the Doctor Who TV series, with a user-added caption that reads "Preserve the media you can before it's gone forever." The Wikipedia article reads, "No 1960s episodes exist on their original videotapes (all surviving prints being film transfers), though some were transferred to film for editing before transmission and exist in their broadcast form. [88] Some episodes have been returned to the BBC from the archives of other countries that bought prints for broadcast or by private individuals who acquired them by various means. Early colour videotape recordings made off-air by fans have also been retrieved, as well as excerpts filmed from the television screen onto 8 mm cine film and clips that were shown on other programmes. Audio versions of all lost episodes exist from home viewers who made tape recordings of the show. Short clips from every story with the exception of Marco Polo (1964), "Mission to the Unknown" (1965) and The Massacre (1966) also exist."

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 172 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Internet archives should be an entity receiving funding through tax dollars. They should be archiving a lot more of the internet, too, including all media. All tax paying citizens should have access to it through a govt provided email acct. Artists should apply for grants instead of relying on corporate residuals.

Socialize copyright.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 105 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Copyright should be set to its original 25 year limits. Then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Copyright makes a lot less sense with the internet.

The barriers to entry to markets are so low.

If I write a song, and you hear it, steal it and record it, I can't really say "well hey man I was saving up money to get some studio time."

Virtually every market has an analogous situation with it's copyright. Not all, but most.

[–] s38b35M5@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

I just noticed a Disney film with the 100 years logo, and realized they still have copyright on their OG stuff. Too bad. It was never meant to establish a dynasty, just a bit of crumb before your work went into public domain. Sigh...

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It would be less of a problem. But most of the media I consume is younger than that, and yet it is still at risk of going away at any moment. Nobody wants to even sell digital copies, except for the ones on CD, DVD, etc. Most of the time your only option is a "license" to access it, or a monthly subscription. A couple of years ago I "bought" the new Blade Runner on Google Play. Turns out now you can only watch above 480p on their approved devices. Which does not include my PC, my main device. The same goes for the streaming services, you get shafted on quality if you aren't using a "smart" tv.

[–] Nouveau_Burnswick@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

They should be archiving a lot more of the internet, too, including all media

Maybe most media; there's stuff that should not exist.

And yes, two girls, one cup and one man, one bottle are within the preservation threshold.

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[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If I build a house, you buy it, that's it. I worked and got paid. Why in the ever loving fuck do people get paid for work they did 30, 40, 70 years ago?!

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[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 89 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m not pirating porn because I’m a cheapskate, it’s because I’m a digital archivist trying to preserve cultural artifacts for future generations.

[–] mycatiskai@lemmy.one 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are only so many gaping asshole cumshots that need to be preserved for future generations. At some point you will need to move on..... .....to pantyhose footjobs.

[–] _dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] wharsmetoothpicson@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There was documentary done a few years back on the comedian Bob Monkhouse and about his obsession archiving media, a lot of which were thought to be lost forever. He had multiple VHS players set up around his house to record things in an era where not many of the general public had one. He also kept tv guides and had written into the margins if there was a change in the schedule. He was actually taken to court in the 70's for copyright infringement but the case was thrown out, though quite a few items from his archive were seized and never returned.

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My grandfather got really into video archiving and from the early 80s through 2005 amassed about 14,000 video tapes, mostly of various aviation TV shows. He spent his entire life as an engineer for Lockheed. His entire 2-story condo in San Diego was a massive VHS library with shelving extending 8 ft high.

Anyways, my father and aunt threw it all in a dumpster because they didn't know what to do with it. All they kept were his ashes.... Which almost 20 years later are still sitting on a bookshelf somewhere

[–] JetpackJackson@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

Wow that's dedication.

[–] TonyToniToneOfficial@lemmy.ml 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I knew what this was from without reading the description. Such a sad portion of a wikipedia article to read.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I wish there were something like bittorrent that worked better as an archival mechanism. The weakness of bittorrent is that material tends to disappear completely when there is no longer widespread popular interest in it.

[–] MickeySwitcherooney@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Was just thinking about this. Usenet guarantees a certain amount of time ~10 years, and a torrent only lasts as long as people are willing to seed. The problem is, long term seeding takes up too much individual space, and I never know when it's necessary. Obviously I'm not wasting 500GB of storage to seed something with 100+ seeders. More trackers should offer bonus points for things with less than 2-3 seeders to ensure long term survival of the media.

[–] droans@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Usenet doesn't guarantee any time at all. Content is purged regularly if it's not being downloaded.

[–] teft@startrek.website 40 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Don’t even have to go that far back. Look at Netflix removing the DnD Community episode because Chang dresses as a drow elf (black skin, white hair). He even says he’s a drow in the episode yet Netflix removed it from the series since it was “racist”. Without pirates that episode would quickly be forgotten.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 year ago

Shirley even says "we just gonna ignore this hate crime right here?" like it's 100% meant to be a meta joke about blackface. But, even comedic irony isn't allowed in this context with streaming services. Disney cut like 5 episodes of Sunny from streaming because Dee in brownface and Mac in blackface.

[–] JetpackJackson@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

Oh true, I didn't even think about preservation of different versions of episodes

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

While I agree that piracy can be preservation of media, it's most often not the case.

Streaming torrents directly or through real-debrid doesn't help preserve media at all. Leeching only without keeping torrents alive also doesn't keep media accessible.

Some people might store media for a few decades and then reupload, but most people never create new torrents.

I'd say the pirates who help preserve media are a small subset of pirates.

[–] sir_reginald@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

read OP's post. if it not were for privacy in the first place and people ripping media, there wouldn't be any copy left of those shows.

Of course not all pirates archive, but there's an important percentage that do. Non-pirates are running out of options because each year less and less audiovisual productions release as physical media (old DVDs, more recently blue rays) and are only available through a subscription model where you do not own the actual content.

So piracy is pretty much the only route available to archive a lot of content.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's all the remasters and tweaks as well. Star Wars is the obvious example, but even things like Red Dwarf got messed with with awful looking CGI plastered in.

[–] UKFilmNerd@feddit.uk 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At least they realised Red Dwarf tinkering was a bad idea and the originals still safely exist. I think they said they used the original negatives for Star Wars which were spliced and used for the Special Editions. They kept telling the public the original negatives for untouched Star Wars no longer exist. I can't believe that's true though. George keeps a copy of everything. There even a cut of Star Wars that used rear screen protection instead of blue screen!

[–] d00phy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

The 4k77 guys pretty much provided what fans have been asking for. Lucas had his chance and chose to charge the fans for something they didn’t ask for.

[–] GFY@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Odds are George personally owns the originals and was able to retain them as part of the terms of the sale to Disney.

He doesn't want them to be released and this is how he prevents it

[–] UKFilmNerd@feddit.uk 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Reminds me of Fraggle Rock. Due to the television station that produced the show being taken over many times over the years, most of the original broadcast masters have been lost. I think all episodes have been found but they're mostly at home VHS recordings.

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[–] Adalast@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I had the brilliant idea the other day of passing an amendment to the copywrite laws to include "independent distributors" for media that is abandoned or removed from active sale/distribution by its copywrite holder. The stipulation is that "independent distributors" are not allowed to make money in any way from the provided service and if the holder wants to rerelease something or remake it, the ID has to pull that title until the holder pulls it from circulation again. I would also put the stipulation on holders that any release has to be materially similar and at a fair market price. They are not allowed to re-release a game from 30 years ago at full modern retail, remakes have to be the same game to count (FFVII:remake would not count, but the updated PC releases of FFVII would), and the sales must be readily available to all citizens in the country (so releasing something on your JP store exclusively does not preclude the independent distribution in the states).

The concept is exactly this. Legalize the preservation of media and art for future generations and allow free access to it, something akin to a digital online museum of games, movies, television shows, and commercials. If a content owner is not willing to make money from it, then there can be no damages.

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[–] HumanPerson@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I don't have the originals, but I am happy to say I have all of the 1963 and 2005 Doctor Whos (with the exception of some new stuff... I should really get sonarr.) They are on i2p and I am still seeding if anyone wants them.

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[–] MolochAlter@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This is extremely common with media that is seen as "artless" mass market as well. Dr. Who was pulp and not deemed worth preserving.

Another example is the show that made me get into model making: Art Attack. A disney show made in the UK that was never collected or released in the original version.

There are some torrents of the Hindi version apparently, but that's all.

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[–] Khotetsu@lib.lgbt 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Reminds me of how something like 60% of video games only exist as emulators, because companies never bothered to preserve them in any form. There was even a remake of a game in the past few years that still had the Skidrow logo in it, because the devs had to go and torrent a pirated copy of the game since the original code was gone and they forgot to remove the cracker's logo. There was also the infamous GTA remake that was made from the phone version of the game for the same reason.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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