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Where the HELL are left-wing influentials and intellectuals!? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 2 days ago by GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works to c/politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world

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A new study on Gen Z men revealed that Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are among the most trusted influencers.

It also found that 52% of UK men believe a "strongman" leader is needed to improve the country. Meanwhile, this article highlights how the right has been incredibly successful at indoctrinating young men into their ideology.

Why the hell is right-wing content so much more effective at gaining support? And why do left-wing influencers consistently fail to do the same? I’ll tell you why: we decided that social issues should take precedence over everything else, and by so doing have thrown all nuance out the window in the process.

The left—and I don’t want to hear Marxists bitching about how progressives “aren’t really leftists” because this kind of in-fighting is part of the fucking problem—needs to radically rethink its approach. Right now, the priority isn’t pushing our agenda. It’s stopping the worldwide fascist takeover.

And yes, this might mean abandoning identity politics entirely, as it is largely responsible for driving people away from the left and toward right-wing populism.

We need left-wing influencers who can effectively use populist tactics. We need less extremism from the progressive left, because in our obsession with social issues, we’ve lost the plot. We need to refocus on the economic needs of the people and stop alienating those who would otherwise support us.

The clock is ticking. Germany's elections are coming up, and Elon Musk has already shown support for the AfD—the most far-right party in Europe. If we don’t correct course now, we’ll soon be living in a world where fascism dominates and equality is a pipe-dream.

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[–] hector@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 hours ago

I'm pretty young man from France. I like leftist ideas and ideals, but it seems that leftists are searching how to do the right thing instead of doing something.

I think leftists ideas have been vastly successful in France with public transport, welfare state. However I'm at loss as to how to keep it sustainable while retaining the same reach as today.

I have two examples of annoying stuff the French leftist say:

They want to tax the rich but fail to see that we need to reform our welfare state, streamline it to make it less complex for citizen to use and the government to maintain (financially and on the administrative side). We can tax the rich but have to use this money right...
They are against nuclear energy while it drives down cost for everyone and is in retrospective quite carbon-neutral... If we innovate in this direction like we used it might just be part of the solution to solve the energy crisis
Moreover, they insist on respecting Europe's policy that index the price of electricity on gas which drives price higher for everyone and doesn't help France. [[Citation needed tbh]]

They have ideals, but don't think to much about how the means. If I'm being honest it's the same with the right in France, they have their own agenda but conveniently avoid saying how they will solve the "immigration crisis", "loss of culture" & "barbarization of society"...

I mean, both party are saying lots of bullshit but I guess I resonate more with the leftist ideas because I don't like old rich white dudes ruling the world with old ideas.

I can understand why people are voting for the right tho seeing the decade of terrorist attacks on the country Islamist extremists: while I was in high school, a terrorist attack killed a philosophy teacher in my city (was scary) & the year before a history teacher's head was cut off near Paris. Recently was the commemoration of Charlie Hebdo 2015 attacks...

I can understand the anxiety and the rage because I felt it after those events, but I can distinguish between islamist terrorists and normal people...

I also can understand that consent for fascist is easy to manufacture given what my country has gone through in recent years.

Pretty difficult times :(

[–] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Now fucking progressives aren't left wing? What the hell is the point of calling it a "wing" if Liberals and Progresives aren't a part of it, ffs?

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

Elitist fucks gatekeeping to prevent ideological poisoning.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 0 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

The left had influencers.

Their names were Joe Rogan and Bernie Sanders, and you all smeared them online and, in Bernie's case, cheated him out of a presidential nomination. The alt opinions available now on the left are people who, for whatever reason, aren't willing to walk on eggshells and follow SJW orthodoxy, so they too get treated badly.

[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

I agree with another commenter who said that left influencers and intellectuals are systematically silenced. The right wing, no matter how extreme, has popular venues to reach people and don't get cancelled for every slip of the tongue like the left wing gets cancelled. I think it's all a concerted effort by liberals/capitalists to weaken the left.

I have found this essay helpful in understanding some of this issue: Exiting the Vampire Castle

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Be the change you want to see, lead them.

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 hours ago

I already do some volunteering. Maybe i can pivot that into gaining grassroots support to run for an office?

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 6 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

In all honesty, it's that it feels like the truth will speak for itself.

It doesn't. Pointing it out is good.

Conservatives understand that they're trying to manufacture agreement with their lies, so given the nature of the task, they're really active. People on the left are just normal people, and they're making the world a better place with art, science, coffee, anything and everything.

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 2 points 13 hours ago

Exactly, so now leftism has been reduced to simply an ideology rather than a working system.

[–] evilcultist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 20 hours ago

I was looking at podcasts recently and it was the same. I assumed it was because the people with the money will support content that furthers their bottom line.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Systemically silenced.

Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 4 points 23 hours ago

Y'know, I've always been dismissive of scare tactics, but maybe there's some sense in them

[–] scbasteve7@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A big issue with political influencers, is that they profit off of rage. Not only that, but the right needs to be told who to be mad at. They're kinda dumb, so right winged people's rage are often misdirected to something that won't hurt the government.

The left is on average (not all of them, mind you) more intellectual. They know who to be mad at, and why. They don't really need an influencer to tell them.

Moreso, the right wing is so condensed into one mind set, while the left wing, in America atleast, is more just anti right. The left is more diverse and spread out with many conflicting ideologies and motives. It's hard to be on the same page as a whole. Because of this, when you have someone who is angry and tries to tell you who to be angry at, it usually misfires because of that conflict. Think Hasan. He's always getting shit because he tries to direct that anger, but so many left wing people don't directly line up their ideology with his, so they direct their anger at him instead.

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I get what you're saying about the right being more unified, but writing them off as dumb is a mistake. The reason their messaging works isn’t just because their audience is less intelligent, it’s because it speaks to their material concerns and fears. The left needs to stop assuming people will just ‘figure it out’ and start actually meeting them where they are.

Yes, the left has more ideological diversity, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for why we keep failing at mass mobilization. The right has factions too - libertarians, religious fundamentalists, corporate elites, working class conservatives - but they manage to unite under a common goal. We need to do the same instead of endlessly debating who is the ‘most correct’ leftist.

Also, the idea that leftists don’t need influencers because they already know who to be mad at is exactly why the left struggles with mass outreach. Working-class people aren’t sitting around reading theory; they need someone to break things down in ways that feel relevant to them (and this is one area where Marxists get things right). Right-wing influencers do this effectively, while many left-wing figures get bogged down in purity politics or academic jargon.

If we really want to win, we have to get better at messaging, outreach, and coalition-building, not just hope that people are naturally smart enough to come to the right conclusions on their own.

[–] scbasteve7@lemm.ee 6 points 21 hours ago

Just a minor correction, I never meant the entirety of the right wing population isn't as intelligent. Just the ones who gobble up the slop that certain influencers put out. Its also worth mentioning that a lot of right wing influence also comes from common social media and the news. They have a lot more control, so while they are more diverse than I initially stated, it's easier to herd these people to a common goal.

With all that being said, I do agree with WHY we should have more influencers. But atleast for myself, I don't need people to break down theory for me. I've picked up quite a lot passively from various different places, mostly common places for discussion, such as here on Lemmy and with friends that are smarter than me irl.

Of course, that's just me, and I should probably be more cognitive of that and use better understandable language in my posts, and recognize that not everyone is the same as I am.

But good points all around.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 3 points 20 hours ago

Yeah I think the mark was missed here. Is everyone on the right dumb? No. Are people who lean right statistically less educated? Yes. But more to the point, on the right horizons are closer (the world is smaller).

You are, I believe, more likely to fall into a majority segment on the right: white, Christian, middle class or lower, average education, not a world traveler, speak one language, etc etc. in that world, what is different is what is scary and so it's easy to influence and rally. You speak to the 70% and you basically hit the mark. It's easy to influence because obviously what you think quietly is what everyone else thinks and it just isn't always easy to put into words. Your religion is under attack, your money doesn't go as far and it's going to people who don't deserve it instead of to you, you don't even know any trans people or people with different pronouns so why is the government messing with that instead of fixing the stuff that affects everybody?

On the left we are, in the best possible casting, a diverse group of honestly militant weenies. There is anger and pushback growing, but it is slow to catalyze. It's a culture of everyone needing to be best and set a good example, which, sure, under ideal circumstances is true. But everyone on the left has an issue that is obviously the most important. We don't take turns or wait in line on issues, we have no clear leader or group driving prioritization, so we are constantly incapable of producing a majority front. If you try to influence this group you will be shouted down by anyone whose issue you at not actively resolving.

Maybe the most accurate thing to say is that as a bloc the left is more heterogeneous and our interest are not necessarily directly aligned. It sure would be nice if we could just group together, but it has yet to happen.

[–] WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago

I do community organizing and host reading groups with others.

Most terminally online people don't talk to their neighbors so online communities give the illusion everyone is shut in and lonely.

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The (modern) Left is a big tent that’s founded on diversity. It promotes a multitude of voices and viewpoints, with none able to rise to the top.

The (current) Right is the opposite. It aims towards an ideal. Individual voices suppress their own diversity and attempt to speak with one voice. This naturally leads to the elevation of charismatic figures.

[–] th3raid0r@tucson.social 6 points 1 day ago

I disagree. The modern left is too busy and moralizing consumption, people's personal mistakes, and vilifying them before they even get to the table.

If you listen to the lefts big influencers, you would have to cut out your family, a good chunk of your friends, and are expected to maintain exclusively left-leaning relationships.

The left needs a heaping dose of pragmatism.

I say this as a person who identifies as a leftist. I say this as a person who's tried to spread the word of multiple community actions here in Tucson, only to not get resources because the various progressive organizations don't deem me progressive enough.

So yeah, I have an entire website, that could advertise crucial community action. But people aren't willing to send me graphics to upload in the various languages and won't forward me to the organizations that initially planned these things. All because I don't measure up to their moral standards.

All in all. Fuck The Democratic socialists of America. Fuck modern progressivism.

They are all no show pieces of shit.

The moderates in my life all do far more for their community than anybody on the left.

It's moderates I find running the soup kitchen. It's moderates that decide to start businesses and grow their local power.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I wish. Not gonna happen though

[–] GrammarPolice@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Stay optimistic friend. If the right can do it, we sure can!

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 4 points 16 hours ago

It would require an extraordinary culture shift...

Fuck it, it's necessary. I'm in!

[–] bizarroland@fedia.io 29 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The serious thing handicapping the left from having a Joe Rogan is that the left as a homogenous group only accepts leaders that are absolutely flawless and perfect in every way.

The instant there is a flaw that is found in any potential leader, the left invades that flaw, makes it the overriding characteristic of that person and destroys them because they do not allow flawed leaders.

Of course, they also don't allow leaders to be perfect, so they will tear them down for being obsequious or condescending or obsessed with always being right all of the time.

As soon as you can find somebody who is both flawless and also not so flawless that they are kicked out of the group for being flawless, then you can have your leftist strongman.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

We HAD left wing Joe Rogan. His name was Joe Rogan. The man was a lefty. He voted for Obama twice. He endorsed Bernie.

The (farther than me) left "cancelled" him because he had guests on his show that they didn't like. I'm not going to get into that whole side conversation, but the left shunned him because they didn't like that he was seeing what other peoples (people they deemed evil or whatever) opinions were.

If you go back and watch his earlier episodes it's crazy how much he changed to today. Once he was "cancelled" and the left kept going after him you can notice him start sliding away from his original position on the left. Then covid happened and his brain broke or whatever and now you've got full right wing Joe.

The transition started slowly at first around ~2018-2019 I would say. Then in 2020 it fell off a cliff.

[–] socsa@piefed.social -1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Lmao, Joe Rogan was a right wing pos long before 2018.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago

Just verifiably incorrect. Like all his episodes are out there. You can watch him talking to right leaning people and disagreeing with them because he's still leaning left well past 2018.

[–] bizarroland@fedia.io 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It wouldn't be so bad if they would accept an apology or allow for people to have done bad things in the past and learn from them and then cease to do them in the future.

The problem is is that even when people go, "Oh, hey, I have made a mistake. I will apologize for that and then rectify my behavior", you still have people crawling out of the woodworks to dunk on them and get their Clout points for dragging them for making a mistake.

By the time a few years has passed and the person has been recognized as having actually changed their ways and not making that mistake anymore, their time in the limelight has faded and their people will no longer follow them, because they have found somebody new who seems to be perfect right now to congregate with instead.

The Right, as a whole, are a terrible group of people with virtually no redeeming qualities at all.

If you are right wing, I will not mourn your death.

But the one thing the right has that the left does not is the ability to stick with somebody even when they have flaws.

No matter how wonderful and powerful you as an individual are, you'll never win out against the group.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Yeah I think saying things like "If you are right wing, I will not mourn your death" or mocking that Trump supporter that was hit by the bullet intended for Trump might also be part of the far left issues.

It's easy to demonize someone who you don't even see as human.

Not a fan of that behavior.

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[–] th3raid0r@tucson.social 4 points 1 day ago

100%

So many self-identified progressives or leftists aren't deemed moral enough to even be allies with.

I have far more moderate friends than I do leftist friends.

I have more conservative friends than I do leftist friends.

And to become moral enough for the left, you need to cut out everybody else in your life except the left.

The left expects you to cut out all of your support network, but then refuses to be a support network in and of itself. Leftists are the shittiest friends I've ever had. The constant judgment and moralization just drove me away.

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