this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024

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Americans have voted for Donald Trump to become president again, and the economy is the biggest reason (theconversation.com)

submitted 6 hours ago by Joker@sh.itjust.works to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 hours ago

This brings me back to a point I keep on making; I really do not care if the vast majority of people vote selfishly. In fact, I want you to vote selfishly.

Just for the love of God be smart about it.

You're hurting? You're feeling economic pain? Absolutely take those feelings into the ballot box with you.

But why in the absolute fuck would you vote for the guy who has promised to make everything more expensive?

The problem is not that people are selfish. Selfish is fine, selfish is good. We can work with selfish. But what we need, desperately, is to teach people how to act effectively in their own self interest, instead of being lead around by the nose by billionaires.

[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 30 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

I don't wanna hear another damn word out of young, American leftists. They moralized, demanded, complained, and stayed home. Now shut the fuck up and enjoy the destruction of Gaza. Morons

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Now do latinos and suburban women.

Singling out a single demographic for the target of your ire isn't helpful.

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Ironically if she'd chosen Shapiro as a running mate then she'd have had a better chance of holding PA. However reports at the time suggested she didn't want to risk upsetting the left by choosing a Jewish running mate.

[+] EmpireInDecay@lemmy.ml -22 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

Leftists wouldn't have voted for a capitalist regardless. She never had our vote to count. SHE opted to embrace war criminal Republicans, she opted to have a black man scold black men, she chose to have Clinton tell Muslim voters to suck it up and ignore that their family and friends were murdered while she helped steer the ship, she threw trans people under the bus.

Her loss is 100% hers to own. And because of her hubris trump won and got the popular vote.

[–] Zacpod@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Leftist with brains did vote for her, because the recognized that the only other option was worse. Now we get worse because hardliners are too stupid to cope with the lesser evil. Morons.

[–] EmpireInDecay@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

Lesser evil is fantasy, and when a person is surrounding themselves with war criminals, people that voted with trump 75% of the time, ignoring the pleas of its citizens while telling them they are not financially struggling, they are not the lesser evil, only evil.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 89 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

How fucking stupid are people Jesus Christ.

[–] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 4 points 2 hours ago

We just got the answer to that question yesterday.

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

We'll just assume that question was rhetorical.

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 80 points 6 hours ago

Showing just how gullible American voters are.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 57 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

Trump got 2 million less votes than he did in 2020. I think this is more of a case where left-leaning people failed to show up in numbers that led for Biden's win in 2020.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 28 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Didn't Democrats raise a record amount of money this election cycle? And they were supposed to use it to get out the vote?

There is money pouring into these campaigns, and it doesn't make any difference at all. It's all just a corporate welfare project for local TV media in swing states.

[+] Sundial@lemm.ee -7 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Money only gets you so far. The unfortunate truth is Harris didn't run a campaign that incentivized people to vote. "Better than Trump" doesn't bring people to polls.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 26 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

I'm so sick of this; that wasn't her platform. People constantly saying that was her platform stopped people from actually looking at her platform. I'm so sick of Dems that think they can just not vote because they don't fall in love with their candidate. Politics is practical and the USA just shit the bed and it will have a real impact on the world. All of the Dems or left leaning people who didn't vote are complicit.

[–] Cherries@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

If the DNC wanted immigrants to vote for Harris, they should not have messaged that they will build the wall and prosecute immigrants. Instead, they courted racists who obviously decided to vote for Trump promising Hitler style mass deportations.

If the DNC wanted the peace lovers to vote for Harris, they should not have advertised accepting the Cheneys. Instead, they welcomed the architect of the War on Terror with open arms while Trump lied about being a peaceful dove who never caused any wars.

If the DNC wanted the disaffected youth to vote for Harris, they should have promised change. Instead, they promised that nothing will change, that the economy is doing great right now, actually, while Trump represents a sledgehammer to our society. A horrible change that will affect everyone negatively, but he just lied about the negative bit.

If the DNC wanted progressives to vote for Harris, they should have adopted progressive policies. Instead, they aggressively courted "Moderate Republicans" with stuff like promising to put more Republicans in the Harris Cabinet. The people who want more Republicans in positions of power are obviously just going to vote for Republican administration.

The DNC threw away every advantage they had. Their messaging was, "We're only a little bit better than the Conservatives" and people believed them. The informed voter obviously knows that Trump is 1000x worse than Harris, but most people aren't well-informed. The DNC failed to understand that and failed to inform the voter base, instead relying on the psychopathic message of, "It votes for the Harris or it gets the Trump again".

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Where is build the wall and prosecute immigrants in her platform?

Associating with the Cheneys was a terrible move; I agree.

Look at her platform, there is plenty of economic change proposed. The president also has a small effect on the economy, usually at least. Trump wants to shock it with tariffs.

Actually look at her platform because you're wrong about almost everything in this comment. People, and bots, on social media perpetuated the claims your making on social media, not the platform.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Because what a candidates actual platform is doesn't matter at all. You can write up whatever you want on your campain website, nobody is ever going to read it. Campaigns are built upon rallies, tv appearances, and social media. In all three spaces, Harris continually reached out to conservatives and ignored key progressive issues.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that her platform as written was fine. Some of her policies were interesting, but that's not what she campaigned on.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Harris shouldn't have needed to reach out to progressives. We have two parties in the US. We have one vote only. Progressives had a choice to say "let's let Trump win and move the country significantly further right" or "I like most of Harris's policies and something is better than nothing". The choice for progressives was crystal clear. Let's not pretend otherwise. The progressives that didn't vote let everyone down, including themselves. Their argument is completely invalid when you look at the real world in front of us.

If anyone calls themself a progressive and didn't vote in this election, I have news for them: you're not a progressive.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Think about what you're saying right now. A politician shouldn't have needed to motivate their own base? Treating progressive votes as a given is absolute bullshit, especially after progressives were already put into the same hostage situation last year.

Maybe stop treating progressive votes as a given, actually campaign and try to court them, listen to their issues without dismissing them at every turn, and then you can get angry when they don't turn up. Telling everyone to shut the fuck up and hold their nose while they vote is clearly not working though.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Her platform had plenty that progressives agree with! Progressives need to not act like toddlers when they don't get everything they want; we're only going to move to the left gradually. They need to stop asking everyone to treat them like the prettiest girl in school and instead start understanding that politics isn't all or nothing. We almost got Bernie, gradually. We could have potentially gotten someone like him if we didn't let Trump catapult US politics so far right in just 8 years. (Yes I know the the Republicans have been moving in this direction since Reagan, but the acceleration in the past decade is crazy)

I don't buy that any progressives looked at both platforms and avoided voting in good faith. That's absolutely ridiculous. It makes no logical sense at all. Anyone who did that is simply not progressive. That's not a no true Scotsman argument either; it's just bananas that anyone who agrees with progressive ideas would let Trump win.

Think about what you're saying. If a politician doesn't bend over backwards for progressives we should let fascism win? What the fuck? People love saying Republicans are voting against their own interests. Well, progressives who don't vote are also voting against their own interests by abstaining.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I will repeat it one more time; what politicians write out as their policy platform on their website does not matter. American elections are based purely on emotions, there is no logic or reading. Nobody is asking Harris to "bend over backwards" to support progressives. I don't think openly condeming the genocide in Gaza and publicly promising to take steps to end it would have cost her the election. I don't think calling out the corporations that are keeping prices inflated would have cost her the election. I don't think taking a firm stance on LGBTQ rights would have cost her the election. I don't think promising to enshrine abortion rights into law would have cost her the election. I think running a campaign that ignored those issues and championed "more of the status quo" while ignoring or attacking anyone who offered genuine criticism did lose her the election. You can point to everywhere in her platform that guarantees she would definitely try her best to support these progressive issues once elected, but if she's not saying it at rallies, on TV appearances, and on social media, then it does not matter. That's not how elections are won.

[+] Sundial@lemm.ee -6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

People need to feel incentivized to vote. The reality is Harris went too far in courting the right and ended up alienating a lot of progressives in the process. There were a lot of warning signs, people just didn't want to listen.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 14 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

No. https://kamalaharris.com/issues/ this is not too far right. People need to stop just listening to sound bites and talking points. All of the socialist voters think we're going to just randomly have a socialist state one presidential cycle? Come on. I don't buy it. The real fact here is that people who considered themselves unaffected by Trump couldn't get off their high horse and try to help. You know what drags us more right? Trump winning and Republicans owning Congress.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee -2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Her platform and campaigning wasn't good enough. It's the unfortunate truth and people need to accept it. Trump got less votes than 2020, and he still won. Because Harris didn't inspire enough people to vote. She tried to work with the "progressive" Republicans and get their vote. Like I said above "Better than Trump" is not something that incentivizes people to vote for.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

Better than Trump wasn't her platform. I will die on this hill because I'm so sick of this. Look at her platform. What is too far right about her platform? Tell me specifically.

No her platform and campaign weren't the biggest problem. The way you're talking and everyone is parroting that was. The "everything or nothing" people were. The left sows its own apathy.

And, regardless of all of that, regardless of the fact that her platform was actually good, the idea that you only get to look at her platform in a vacuum is a complete joke. The idealism of the left is fucking us all. This isn't a theoretical exercise. You realize Trump wants to pull out of NATO? That the right wants to outlaw life saving medical procedures? You realize real people are going to actually, without hyperbole, die because of this election?

We're in a fight against a Christian fascist state right now. Miss me with this bullshit. I would have been 100% motivated to vote for a turkey sandwich. This is all such a joke and this narrative is infuriating. The left is constantly acting like a bunch of toddlers kicking and screaming because they got the wrong ice cream flavor while the right marches towards the end of everything I thought we believed in.

[–] niemcycle@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Exactly this. The average leftist can talk for ages about how Harris has to 'earn their vote' but at the end of the day you vote for the political party you have, not the one you want. The fact Trump won the popular vote is shameful on the part of the US left. Voter suppression definitely played a part but the lack of urgency, the constant infighting and demands for Harris to appeal more to them absolutely did not help matters.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago

I'm not happy about this outcome either, it's an incredibly shitty day for any progressive in any country. But the end result is simple. Less people felt compelled to vote for Harris here than they did for Biden in 2020. It's not about a "everything or nothing" mentality, it's about delivering a message that makes people want to go out of their way to vote for her. She alienated a lot of people by doing stupid shit like campaigning with people like Liz Cheney, saying she'll have Republicans in her cabinet, supporting Israel, being tougher on border policies, supporting fracking, etc. They banked on having more Republicans vote for them than progressives being disenfranchised. Harris isn't much of a progressive, especially on the world stage. She just looked to be a progressive when comparing her to Trump.

There's no doubt there were other things like misinformation campaigns and such. But they knew about this for a long time and should have prepped for it better.

[–] mmcintyre@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

If the left not voting leads to Democrats losing, you'd think the party would try to win those votes. Instead they campaign like they don't need them. And well, I guess.. the campaign advisors actually don't need them, they're gonna get hired to run the next campaign regardless. And the fat-cat donors are gonna stay rich regardless. Both ready to steer the next election!

It's always "the left" that's causing candidates to win by not voting, it's never candidates failing to give them something to vote for. Or advisors and donors pushing the candidates towards positions that will cost them the election. It's always "the left".

But hey, she got the Cheney's vote! And look, my swing state family's as well. But Democratic candidates and policies need to go big, or they're gonna keep being sent home. People voted for Trump for the same reason they voted for Obama - they absolutely want change, and 25K for a mortgage down payment ain't it.

[–] Sakychu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 hours ago

People in 1932 also voted for change and boy did they got it.

[–] Kolrami@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

They're not done counting. There's a decent chance he has more votes this time.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 38 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Thanks COVID. You took our family members, forced us to have to "save the economy" causing inflation and now gave us a dictator. The gift that keeps on giving.

[–] morphballganon@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

COVID is not responsible for Trump's win. The electorate is.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 2 points 2 hours ago

As the article is stating "the economy is the biggest reason" people vote for Trump. The economy is bad for normal folks because of inflation, which was high in part because of corporate greed but also because of the major cash injection to "save the economy" through COVID.

Our (necessary) reaction to COVID set the conditions for Trump to fan the flames of peoples gripes.