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barbara-pit for Cringetopia users

Also I hope people in here are decent about plurals. r/fakedisordercringe is another one of the "be normal debatebro-l" instances

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[-] NormalC@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago

I wish we could conduct pre-Natal testing for autism

This always sends chills down my spine because I used to internalize that thinking before and genuinely not see what was wrong with it.

I hate abelism so fucking much, its a libs diet fascist cola.

[-] JuneFall@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

CW

a libs diet fascist cola.

Which still led during the Nazi period to hundreds of thousands of dead: Operation T4 (address was Tiergartenstr. 4). This program was defended by eugenicists in the West. Even after the war.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Don't forget constantly using person-first language when talking about autistic people, using the deprecated and Nazi-collaborationist namesake "Asperger's", and the pick-me autistic people who always chime in on mainstream discussions to validate anti-autistic ableism:

"I have high-functioning Asperger's and I hate it when [autistic people do or request something].

Autism is no excuse for not doing [thing I am capable of but which others may not be capable of].

Personally, I hate other people with autism who don't fit into allistic society as well as I do and it makes me resent people with autism who don't because it makes us all look bad."

*Shudders*

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

"I have high-functioning Asperger's and I hate it when [autistic people do or request something].

The eternal drive of individuals in oppressed groups to try to prove themselves as worthy and "one of the good ones" to the oppressor deeper-sadness

[-] VHS@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago

constantly using person-first language when talking about autistic people

can you explain what you mean by this? i'm autistic but i don't really know the controversy about it

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Of course.

It's generally accepted that autistic people prefer to be referred to using language that uses the term "autistic person" rather than "person with autism" because the latter is considered to be externalising autism and denying it as being central to the identity and experience of the autistic person.

Just as we wouldn't say "a person with blackness" or "a person with womanhood" or "a person with homosexuality" because that is seen as separating out the core experience of being a black person, a woman, or a gay person so too does the autistic community feel that phrasing it as "person with autism" has the same effect. (Also in the case of a gay person, the way of phrasing it above has implications of pathologising and medicalising the experience, which is what happens a lot for autistic people too and that has historically been to serious detriment to autistic people.)

For me, being autistic, there is no "outside" of autism; it colours who I am, it shapes my relationship to and understanding of the world (and this extends to how I experience myself) so to put autism as external to me is to imply that it's sort of additional somehow and it gives the impression that there's a "real" me beneath the autism, which I personally reject the notion of.

Note that this is just the general consensus here; some people don't care, some people prefer to refer to themselves as "a person with autism" and that's valid. But as a rule I'd say that it's best to refer to autistic people this way around as it's the preferred term.

That being said, I will sometimes say things like "excuse my autism", "this might be my autism acting up", "today the autism won", and "this is just my autism speaking but...", although I do this ironically.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

I need to say "today autism won" more, but as a brag after like a day of unstopped behaviour that makes NTs angry

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Nice. I'm definitely stealing that idea. What a perfect example of reverse discourse!

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[-] JamesConeZone@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

This is so helpful, thank you. There has been a movement to change language in academia from things like "a leper" or to "a person who has leprosy" or "a depressed woman" to "a woman who has depression" etc in order to emphasize humanity of the person first and other characteristics second. I appreciate your perspective on that type of wording.

[-] VHS@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago
[-] JuneFall@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

While I agree with what you write, ESL speakers often vary in meaning. The discourse and concept you mentioned is one that is part of learning a language. I do prefer for my diagnosis a person with specific diagnosis instead of diagnosis person, too. But that varies by person. Since the diagnosis is something that is an assigned thing, what is constitutional to me is not quite described by it. Though at the same time I am a queer person more than I am a person with queerness.

[-] CatoPosting@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

You put that so clearly. Person with womanhood really does sound so alienating, so I'll try to modulate my language towards autistic people in the future :)

[-] berrytopylus@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The word autism to me isn't like "something I have" but rather just a descriptive term about me and my traits. It's like

"That person is nice" = nice person "that person is mean" = mean person "That person is into art" = artistic person

Autism is just a label, an observation made that "hey people with X and Y trait also seem to have A, B, C trait in common". I would be who I am with or without the word existing so putting it as something I "have" rather than am feels odd.

But you're free to use and prefer what you want for yourself.

[-] NoGodsNoMasters@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have Asperger’s and my “special interest” is gender ideology, which means I spend every waking minute thinking and problem-solving on how to quell this monster. Everything points to exposing the abysmal quality of “scientific evidence” that props up their beliefs. 🧵

Not 100% what you were talking about, but is word for word an unironic tweet I've seen and idk it felt relevant somehow. And down in the replies they make the point that they can't be wrong because of their Asperger's genius powers or whatever

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ugh. This is abysmal.

Autistic people are just as likely to be cranks as anyone else. Perhaps even moreso because the degree of focus it usually requires in order to become a crank is not that common in the allistic population whereas autistic people are much more inclined towards hyperfixations and, thus, they are more likely to become a crank due to this ability to sustain their focus on a singular subject of interest.

We're just as susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger effect as anyone else.

Just like how clumsily hammering away at the keys of a piano for 10,000 hours will not turn me into a concert pianist, so too is 10,000 hours of hyperfocus on a subject insufficient to turn me into an expert on it. With training and guidance, or in less common circumstances with a keen focus on self-teaching, devoting that amount of time can turn someone into an expert (which is why autistic people tend to be more likely to be a wealth of knowledge in their interests) but unless you've taken account of your biases and for the fact that information needs to be viewed with healthy skepticism and a critical eye then you probably aren't going to end up an expert in a subject, you will likely just end up being a very proficient crank.

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

hey comrades, remember self diagnosis is valid. not everyone has years to wait and thousands of dollars to spend on a something that may not improve your life in anyway. there are some states in america where your parents can take your kids away and the state will do it just because you have a diagnosis. Also good luck ever winning sole custody of your kids. And you can get rejected from moving to many countries like new zealand. Not to mention my poc and afab (edit: so the majority of the population) comrades are far far far less likely to be diagnosed properly. diagnoses for adults sometimes just means society gives itself permission to dehumanize you more.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

I am self-diagnosed bc if I have a single mental illness, I will not get hormones and DIY might be criminalized as well, either it is or it will be soon, idk rn. eu-cool , folks

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

yes such a good point!!! especially since its an increasing "concern" by terfs to "protect autistic people from trans ideology". trans comrades dont need another reason to be invalidated.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

I have OSDD (probably), which makes it so easy to invalidate my gender stuff

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

OSDD

so sorry I assumed! Yeah OSDD could also absolutely be used against you too. you are valid and great!

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

af-heart , i also have autism, dw, lol

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

hahaha, good! autism gang! meow-hug

[-] grym@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

Hang on I didn't know about this and i'm in europe, can you explain what this means? Is having a diagnosed mental illness a justification for refusing access to hormones?

[-] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Are you really trans? Or is your "dysphoria" just being depressed? Is the kind of thing gatekeeping therapist can throw at you

[-] grym@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

I see yea, i've heard a lot about that. I'm prepared to fight for it, even if I have to present a very cliché image, but i'm not going to show any doubts or I know it's going to be harder.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

Depends, my country has you at the mercy of wacky therapists and they often use stuff like depression to gatekeep you

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[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Self diagnosis is valid but also a bunch of people aren't actually self-diagnosing they're just using it to be edgy.

They used to say "as an r-slur" but when that became unacceptable they switched to autistic. A lot of the people saying this stuff don't actually genuinely think they're autistic, they're just assholes.

Which is a problem because our autistic friends struggle to recognise it. And they're a vulnerable group for grooming.

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i agree with everything you said, please read this in a friendly and confused tone. i dont see how that contrast with my original statement. My goal was to make self diagnosed comrades who were feeling insecure from assholes in the post above feel better. the fake disorder crigne sub is harmful imo. there are definitely the keffels of the world and tic tok teens and those people suck but do not invalidate actual autistic individuals self diagnosis.

Which is a problem because our autistic friends struggle to recognise it. And they're a vulnerable group for grooming.

hahaha oh trust me I know. I have been left feeling tricked and hurt quite a few times, I still always believe my comrades unless I have reason not to.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

i dont see how that contrast with my original statement.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just adding that there's an issue here in that we do need to find a way to counter the assholes somehow while also not invalidating our autistic friends.

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

i see, I agree!

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Which is a problem because our autistic friends struggle to recognise it. And they're a vulnerable group for grooming.

what do you mean by this exactly and how should the issue be adressed, then, in your opinion?

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's similar to the vulnerability that young eggs (trans people that haven't realised it yet) have to grooming by the far right.

They give them attention in a certain set of specific ways and then pipeline them into right wing online spaces and behaviours through various targeted grooming methods. I use the word grooming here because it's specifically the young teens that are most vulnerable to it and the main core of the people targeted.

I don't know how the issue should be addressed. I'm just highlighting it as an issue. We do need to avoid invalidating self-diagnosis autism but also need to counter the shitheads.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

This is not meant as a rebuke or lecture, mostly thinking aloud.

I am unsure about reclaiming terms from the shitheads. I suppose it is necessary.

Arguments of positionality are a curse and there are counters to them, but they need to be expanded. For example, tokenism and showing how that person is harming their own group would be a start.

Fakeclaiming requires a lot of looking at individual cases to be even semi viable. It is in my experience mostly harmful.

Arguments should be dealt with in a principaled manner while recognizing identities in a way that stops presupposing that Identity X has a right to opinion Y, I think.

This is not meant as a diss, I just kinda feel tired being suspicious all the time and wanted to give some thoughts(funny thing for a 1 month account to say, but I have been around for some time, I just occassionally delete my acc bc of OPsec, believe me 🥺)

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[-] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

If you're an undiagnosed adult, then getting a mental disorder diagnosis will not help you if you are functional/conforming within society. Only if you need disability money because you can't exist in capitalism right does it make sense to seek diagnosis.

[-] Ildsaye@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago
[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

More and more people are saying this

[-] alexandra_kollontai@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago

Also I hope people in here are decent about plurals

I have some friends who describe themselves as plural. I don't know very much about it, but that's okay. I listen to what people say, keep an open mind, and respond with respect. Other people's experiences of the world are different from mine and are equally important. :)

[-] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

is there a decent explanation of that somewhere? i've only read that "multiple personalities isn't like how it's depicted in media" because of course it isn't, but then i've only ever encountered internet people presenting themselves as systems acting like that troll that was banned recently or like data in tng season 7's masks.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

I don't have DID, but a pretty mild form of OSDD, I think. It's like, breaks in memory, extremely varying amounts of gender dysphoria, between like paralysing sadness after seeing my beard shadow and being able to walk around in swimming trunks on a beach. Political opinions swing from social democracy to "the GPCR was the best thing that ever happened." Different likes in food etc, different behaviour, from nice and charming to constant anger. I try to figure myself out, but therapists are hitler-detector and will never ever help, so I am left to do so on my own. I have two alters that I can consistently identify. It even affects my autism, one alter is almost NT and another one pretty autistic. There are probably some more, but bc of Opsec, no details. I am also extremely suggestible, which I can use for autosuggestive stuff, incidentially giving me decent discipline, but complicating any discussion of that topic (bc people are like "you just convinced yourself you have got it")

@President_Obama@hexbear.net since you asked in the closed mega, this answers your q as well

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[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

Also, to note, being a system doesn't relieve us of responsibility for our stuff, is our take. We community police ourselves, so to speak and like even if the alter that is extremely sexual is fronting, the rest is somewhat in control to uphold volcel-vanguard thought. It is not like a car where only one person can drive, i'd guess.

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

We are not the best source on this, it's a spectrum and we are on the lower end, mind you

[-] JuneFall@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have some experience with two people who had DIS/multiple personalities and with the (non-)acceptance of psychiatrists and psychologists. One person might get a borderline disorder instead of DIS. At least Frank Putnam's MPD book has large stretches that are not good or factual or good science (and do sometimes lack patient centering) Edit: Read Huldra's comment about him, they highlight important consequences of his ideas.

I have a couple of theories of, but mostly it doesn't matter so much. What matters is how we want to interact with bodies that we recognize. We do ascribe to them a sense of continuity and permanence which obviously is wrong and yet not seldom useful. We do ascribe to them certain patterns of acceptable or estimated behavior, too. A clearly neurodivergent friend I have gets cut much more slack if he isn't finding the right tone of cultural civility, which is the right thing to do. Other people would get more scold for failing social cues.

What matters in interacting with DIS is that you yourself are still allowed boundaries and it isn't a failure not to get not communicated things. Though it is nice to talk to people as they want to be talked to, even if that varies.

[-] Huldra@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

CW:(Ableist murder) https://greyfaction.org/resources/proponents/putnam-frank/ (Also further warning that other text on this site may be critical of DID as a whole, but its still a valuable resource for documenting what some notable figures in the field believe and support.)

Frank Putnam also seems to support "facilitated communication"(various methods where an "assistant" supposedly helps someone communicate when they otherwise couldn't, and interprets those communications) and satanic abuse conspiracy shit, specifically in a case when both of these combined led to the murder of an autistic child.

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[-] Lols@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

autism has not made my life easier and i would probably choose not to be autistic if that was an option

[-] vomit_sounds@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

I appreciate your perspective. I do not share it, but I do understand why you would hold this view, even if there was no ableism at all or if we lived in an anti-ableist society. This is not about saying your wishes are rooted in false consciousness. This is meant to be making fun of people that despise us and actively participate in the system that keeps us down and those who suck up to them. If I hurt you, I would like to apologize.

[-] M68040@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

I take the opposite stance and refuse to speak to “normal” “people”.

[-] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

We need to quarantine all redditors until we can figure out just what is going on.

Alternatively, the wall.

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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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