this post was submitted on 21 May 2024
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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

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Sam Altman is full of shit (and totally has a thing for Scarlett Johansson) (www.wheresyoured.at)
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by mii@awful.systems to c/techtakes@awful.systems
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Wake up honey, new Zitron just dropped.

Looks like Sammy boy has a crush on Scarlett Johansson and wanted to model his sexy chatbot after her role in the movie Her. The damage control is actually hilarious.

Altman subsequently claimed that the actress for Sky was cast before the company reached out to Johansson.

“Yeah, I don’t want to go out with you anyway. Also, I already have a girlfriend but she goes to a different school, so you wouldn’t know her. And no, I won’t tell you who it is!”

I mean, we all knew that OpenAI is a fucking clown show of a company run by wannabe nerd frat boys with way too much money, but I didn’t think we’d get high school level relationship drama this season.

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[–] dogsnest@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Hey, I'm gonna be THAT guy:

This begs the question: If the voice behind Sky belongs....

No, it doesn't. It raises (prompts) the question.

Begging the question

I feel much better, thanks.

[–] zogwarg@awful.systems 33 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Hi, I'm going to be that OTHER guy:

Thank god not all dictionaries are prescriptivists and simply reflect the natural usage: Cambridge dictionary: Beg the question

On a side rant "begging the question" is a terrible name for this bias, and the very wikipedia page you've been so kind to offer provides the much more transparent "assuming the conclusion".

If you absolutely wanted to translate from the original latin/greek (petitio principii/τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι): "beginning with an ask", where ask = assumption of the premise. [Which happens to also be more transparent]

Just because we've inherited terrible translations does not mean we should seek to perpetuate them though sheer cultural inertia, and much less chastise others when using the much more natural meaning of the words "beg the question". [I have to wonder if begging here is somehow a corruption of "begin" but I can't find sources to back this up, and don't want to waste too much time looking]

I feel mildly better, thanks.

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If natively fluent speakers of the English language use beg the question in the "wrong" way time and time again, finding the "incorrect" meaning a natural fit with their understanding of the verb to beg, then the "incorrect" meaning may well be the one we should roll with.

[–] mpk@awful.systems 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Pedants being wrong on the Internet is exactly why I have an OED subscription. :) "Beg the question" in the sense of "to assume without proof" doesn't have a supporting quote newer than 1870, which suggests to me that... yeah, it can be considered obsolete.

[–] zogwarg@awful.systems 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Merriam-Webster also has a good page explaining the expression, and the predominance of the natural meaning: https://web.archive.org/web/20240522073251/https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/beg-the-question

[–] gerikson@awful.systems 9 points 7 months ago

There's a segment of the population that would be enormously relieved if phrases like a question that begs an answer replaced the usual begs the question uses. These are people who think using beg the question to mean "to cause someone to ask a specified question as a reaction or response" is completely and thoroughly wrong. There are probably more of these people than you think, and they are judging the rest of us.

Well put M-W staff writer, well put.

[–] nonfuinoncuro@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I also stopped correcting people about the "correct" meaning of 'moot' a while ago too. Also when http://begthequestion.info went offline I hung up that hat for good. Still get a twinge inside every time I hear either

[–] zogwarg@awful.systems 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Was it not always moot to enlighten the meaning of the word. ^^

[–] nonfuinoncuro@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago

ahhh why are you doing this to me

[–] froztbyte@awful.systems 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)

sorry could you try this comment again but, like, making sense the next time?

[–] slopjockey@awful.systems 19 points 7 months ago

Begging the question is a fallacy in which the premise of an argument presupposes the truth of its conclusion; in other words, the argument takes for granted what it's supposed to prove.

In Critical Thinking (2008), William Hughes and Jonathan Lavery offer this example of question-begging: "Morality is very important, because without it people would not behave according to moral principles."

Used in this sense, the word beg means "to avoid," not "ask" or "lead to." Begging the question is also known as a circular argument, tautology, and petitio principii (Latin for "seeking the beginning").

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-begging-the-question-fallacy-1689167

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Are you daring to beg to question?!

[–] froztbyte@awful.systems 7 points 7 months ago

Could I dare you to make a halfway good post instead?

[–] dogsnest@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago

Try remedial lemmy.

[–] 200fifty@awful.systems 6 points 7 months ago

I beg your pardon?