this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2024
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[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I just cannot bring myself to trust my life to a Chinese car.

I have done business there. I know what it's like. It does not fill me with confidence.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Also it's one thing to be spied on by ad companies (which is bad enough) but quite another to be spied on by an adversarial dictatorship.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 9 months ago

Exactly. Same reason I won't use Chinese brand phones.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won't do shit.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That's not a silly worry, it's a daily occurrence.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea

Did you mean say "foreign entity" or "China". Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.

But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.

It's a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well that's up to you. I'm no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you'll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

I haven't heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.

... have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I've never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn't, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

Look if you say "I'm not involved, it's not my problem" that's fair enough. But to say there's no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.

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[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure they won't do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don't have to?

Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 9 months ago (25 children)

I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?

You are doing that now though.

The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.

OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.

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[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You probably trust your life to chinese made parts in your current car.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.

I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.

We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.

The cars that are exported here must meet our standards.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That's fine if you're happy to drive one, I don't really care. Personally I won't.

They can say they meet regulations all they won't, but the number of times corners are cut in China to make a few extra bucks makes me look elsewhere.

This is all not to mention not wanting to support the CCP in any way, and the CCP has fingers in all the large companies in China.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That’s fine if you’re happy to drive one, I don’t really care. Personally I won’t.

You do you boo. It seems like the rest of the country doesn't agree with you too much.

But hey you hate China and I guess that's one badge you can wear with honor.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (8 children)

I never said anyone else had to listen to me. I said, originally, that I wouldn't drive a Chinese company.

And I want to be very clear here. I don't hate China. I greatly distrust the Chinese government, and the culture of bribary, lying, cheating and scamming that has gone along with it. I also do not hate it because it's popular to do so online. I have this view because of direct, personal, experience with Chinese companies and the government there.

Simply put, Chinese companies have and will make important stuff out of sub-par materials to make a buck, and lie, cheat and bribe their way to market. And then people die. This is not paranoia, this is something that happens all the time there.

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