Well that's up to you. I'm no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you'll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

I haven't heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.

... have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I've never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn't, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

Look if you say "I'm not involved, it's not my problem" that's fair enough. But to say there's no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.

I feel like you haven't been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn't out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn't like the CIA movies, mate.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.

Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so....

You would be wrong about most of this.

I don't think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.

Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.

All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.

I feel like you haven’t been to the US.

I have actually but I don't see why that's relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?

. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world.

It sounds like you are not very aware of what's been happening.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so....

So you only care about yourself?

I don't think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.

Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don't have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.

But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.

All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.

The CCP has no laws it needs to follow. The US government does. It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited. And no, the NSA, doesn't. Some systems allows access, but not "all routers etc". That's conspiracy theory territory I'm afraid.

It sounds like you are not very aware of what's been happening.

I am, I'm just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So you only care about yourself?

I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don't use the same criteria against any other country.

Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.

USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.

But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.

China bad, USA is worse.

The CCP has no laws it needs to follow.

Same goes for the USA.

It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited.

Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn't need to ask anybody.

I am, I’m just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.

You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don’t use the same criteria against any other country.

I have empathy for many people. I care about all lives. I never once said I hold this view exclusively about China. We were talking about Chinese cars, so I said I don't trust them.

USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.

Disagree. You should spend time in Asia and talk to the people there, follow the news, etc. You might learn something.

China bad, USA is worse.

Ok, so how does that invalidate me not wanting a Chinese car or a Chinese cellphone exactly? Since that's how this started...

Same goes for the USA.

No, this is wrong. The government can do a lot, yes, but it is not a dictatorship.

Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn’t need to ask anybody.

It really isn't, but whatever.

You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.

How, exactly, am I racist?

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have empathy for many people.

Do you? Even about Palestinians and Yemeni and Saudi Arabians?

Disagree. You should spend time in Asia and talk to the people there, follow the news, etc. You might learn something.

Disagree all you want. The fact that NSA has software in all routers and hard drive firmware and sim cards has been widely reported.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 9 months ago

Do you? Even about Palestinians and Yemeni and Saudi Arabians?

Yes, of course. Why do you keep bringing them up? What do they have to do with Chinese cars? I genuinely don't understand why you are on about this.

Disagree all you want. The fact that NSA has software in all routers and hard drive firmware and sim cards has been widely reported.

No, it is reported they put backdoors in US-made routers. Your claims of "all" are nonsense.

But even if we agree on this fact, I am less concerned about it. Why? Because I can badmouth the US government and have no fear of being detained if I travel there. The same cannot be said about China, as another poster has already pointed out.