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I prefer getting a finger cut off, as opposed to an arm.
Doesn't mean I want to lose my finger.
Regardless of how you feel about the candidates the important thing is to actually vote. Going around and saying "well they both suck" doesn't help anyone.
Not voting then getting the greater of two evils from your perspective is your own fault.
Always vote, even if the news or anyone else tells you the candidate you want is a sure thing, vote even if the candidate you don't want seems like a shoe-in.
Hillary vs trump was the first election in which I could vote, but I refrained on account of not wanting to vote for a giant douche or a shit sandwich. I will never make that mistake again...
I'm not a Biden fan, but I voted for him last election and will eagerly do so again this next cycle.
I also want to point out that the gap between the "lesser of two evils" has turned into the Grand fucking Canyon following trump's attempts to overthrow our government to remain in power, and platforming on literal fascism...
It's a vote for democracy or neonazi fascism. Period.
I don't know why the Onus is literally never on our politicians to do better. We always have the threat of some worse force to keep us in line.
The public selects the representation every few years, the public votes them out that's a form of being held accountable. If people ignore their right to vote then that can let people abuse their positions or cause people to pander only to people who actually vote since those are the people keeping them in. D
Just like Calarado had done there should be a "none of the above" option.
I'm no longer entertaining this perspective since people like you never have anything bad to say about people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. A vote for Biden in the primaries was a vote specifically made to fuck over progressive and leftist efforts. You've got endless energy available to lecture us but none for the people who fucked us over? Pound sand.
Respectfully, I think you're misunderstanding my comments. It's anyone's right to hate how or who anyone else voted for. But not voting at all and getting upset with the outcome is your own fault.
Any person should be encouraging every other person that they know to exercise their right to select an official. Ignoring that right because you feel it's futile or because your super sure what you want will happen is a breakdown in democracy.
I don't really care who or how anyone votes but they all should be doing it.
I voted for Biden in the 2020 general election and I'm upset with the outcome. So in 2024 I won't be voting for Biden and I won't be upset with the outcome.
So it doesn't affect me at all but may I ask why you wouldn't decide to vote for an independent, or the republican party.
Really you should vote for whomever most closely aligns with your governing preferences. Ultimately if you dislike the platform of every party, then it should be a decision about which most closely aligns with what you're looking for.
If you were deciding what to eat it doesn't really matter if you don't like the options, eventually you have to choose something or someone else will choose for you.
Again I'm not endorsing any party or platform, I don't care about how you choose to cast your vote. I just think that everyone should vote, even if it doesn't align with my preferences or voting choices, which again I'm not saying I endorse any party specifically.
Oh. Perhaps I've misunderstood you as you tried to explain to me earlier. I'll be voting third party so if that's all you were encouraging me to do I apologize for misunderstanding you.
Yep, vote however you want, I don't care, just go and vote.
How exactly do you intend to win future primaries and elections without any of these voters? You have endless energy to criticize moderates about how they need to earn your vote and be higher quality candidates and represent you -- what about leftist candidates?
As long as you hold this double standard, you're not going to go anywhere. Moderate voters are not obedient little sheep, and progressive candidates are not entitled to moderate votes. If it isn't progressives' fault when moderates lose, then it isn't moderates' fault when progressives lose.
The same way they intended to win 2024 while fucking us over.
You aren't losing a finger, you're being forced to accept that your politics don't align with most of your fellow citizens.
Frederick Douglas couldn't even vote, but he worked for politicians who couldn't promise to end slavery.
Don't align with most of your fellow citizens that vote, specifically. And they're the only ones that count in this case.
Sounds like you think you can win the 2024 general election without our help then. Best of luck.
If you're petty enough to roll over and let fascism win, you were never someone who could be relied on anyway.
And yet, apparently the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries are relying on our votes because he wouldn't have won the general without us.
Based on what you know about the GOP, what makes you think that there will even be an election in 2028 it they gain power in 2024?
I don't. Question is, why did the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries think they could fuck us over and then turn around and expect our votes?
So, a fascist takeover and having elections banned is okay by you, because you're mad Biden voters didn't pick your choice?
Why would I answer your question when you didn't answer mine?
Do you think you can win primary and general elections without their help? Petulance only begets petulance.
Do you want our votes or not? This ain't the way to do it.
This entire thread is literally about how there aren't very many of "your votes"
Sounds like you think you don't need us to win the 2024 election then.
Go nuts man. I don't care at all how you vote
Alright then don't cry when you lose in 2024. And if there is another primary election in 2028 do your best not to vote for the most procorporate trash candidate yeah?
Joe Biden was my first choice in the 2020 primaries. Clinton was my first choice in 2016. Buttigieg will be my first choice in 2028, most likely.
See the thing is, im part of that majority, and I agree with them.
Why did you vote for Biden out of everybody else in the 2020 primaries?
I'm a big fan of Biden as a human being, and figured he'd do about the job he's currently doing given his skill at working in Congress.
His policies are generally, but not always, policies I agree with, so that clicked too.
Should I take that to mean:
You need to be more specific here. These are really vague reasons.
No I absolutely love Booker and Buttigiege especially.
No I just preferred Biden, especially with his history both in the Senate and as VP to Obama, dealing with a very hostile Congress as I expected he would during his term.
I do not agree 100% with any politician's policies. I think Biden is way too protectionist, as an example of a place we agree in vision.
I figure he holds those views because of his passion for "the little guy" and his generalized support of unions, but it's a place we generally disagree. You gotta take the good with the bad. Shit, Buttigieg spoke in favor of rent control and I still like him a ton. He's a good guy. He can be wrong sometimes.
Booker has more views that I don't like than most, but damn if I don't like that he can get shit done with, again, heavily entrenched interests who hate one another. He never really had a shot, but I just like the dude.
Happy to answer any more questions.
What I'm getting from this is you prefer "moderates" like Biden over progressives and leftists so you voted for Biden over everybody else because of that.
We are not on the same side.
Biden is not a moderate
You're right. He's right of center.
We are not on the same side. You'd rather work with MAGA than compromise to the left.
I don't perceive us as having similar end desires, no, but the idea I'd rather side with people further from my views than closer is absurd, and born of the jealousy - you're angry that the norm is the norm and not your views. My support of Biden is proof of that - he's too protectionist, but Trump is far more protectionist, as an easy policy example.
If you want your ideas to be popular, consider trying to spread them positively.
I'm not angry at all. I'm just not voting for Biden in 2024 and you're gonna be angry about that.
I've got a better idea: I'll stop propping up your shitty candidates until you're willing to compromise or this country collapses. I'm fine with either outcome.
I've told.you I don't care lol.
Nah. There aren't enough of you to matter.
Is that what you said in 2016?
No in 2016 I still had a lot of (now-delusional) hope that evangelicals wouldn't possibly vote for an insane boor of a man.
You didn't vote for Clinton in 16 lol
You seem incapable of putting 2 and 2 together here.
Exactly my point.
Awww is the Boomer upset that someone doesn't just do what they're told? Gonna throw a little fit and insist you're the grown up and therefore you make all the rules?
Typical.
I'm old but I'm not that old. I'm a tail end millennial.
I'm not trying to make the rules or insist I'm the grown up. I'm just trying to point out that animosity with necessary allies is a terrible idea, and it applies both directions. I think it's more important to win than it is to be proven right.
They're not allies though. The people who voted for Biden in the primaries did so specifically to fight progressive and leftist efforts. Ask anybody who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries why they did it.
They are not allies and they're not hiding it. They're fighting us in the open.
I voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries AND I'm a progressive. I did so because I knew he had a better chance of winning over a broad group of voters that might have been turned off by populist loudmouths. Once the threat of fascism has subsided I will gladly vote third party, but for now we have coalitions to build and freedoms to protect.
Thanks for coming out and admitting it. You intentionally voted for Biden over progressives and leftists because they're progressives and leftists.
We are not on the same side.
I think younger people are being forced to accept their politics don’t align with most of their fellow citizens who vote and have money. Statistically this means older citizens.
If there’s anything good coming out of the last two presidential elections I think it’s that younger citizens are becoming more active and galvanizing them to vote and be heard.