this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
342 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13535 readers
57 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
do you think anyone who says something hateful should end up in prison? that feels like a little much to me...
Why? Hatespeech causes death and a measurably large quantity of it. Treating it with the seriousness of the consequences it creates is in fact sensible.
This has several benefits, it prevents the politicians from using it as a weapon, since they can't actually say anything homophobic without imprisonment.
In the longterm you do re-education instead. But this is perfectly good in the interim.
Isn't hatespeech something planned before hand? targeted towards a specific person or group? that obviously should be punishable, or if you have a huge audience and platform and share hateful stuff, then I definitely agree
but something laxer like a conservative grandma complaining about gay people on her personal facebook and things like that, i wouldn't think she deserves to go to jail
neither is manslaughter. reduced or stayed sentences make sense but it's still best to stamp it out.
all manslaughter results in the same horrible effect, but in terms of hate speech I think there's a huge difference between a big influencer making a hitpiece and a conservative weirdo complaining to his family or his single digit follower count, the damage is nowhere near the same, and punishing so severely something like the latter case might have the opposite effect and only increase the hatred
all hatespeech also has the same effect: driving political minorities out of public life, building the base for fascism to grow its roots. it's the degree of harm that varies, not the kind. so the severity of the response should also vary but a socialist society should absolutely outlaw hatespeech, just as it should expropriate private property. reeducation should absolutely follow for everyone but committed fascists. bigots should be afraid to spew their bile. is it harsh? absolutely. but as someone who's personally been chased by a group of bigots screaming slurs with the obvious intent to beat me, allowing them to move openly only helps them build power and enables precisely those sorts of attacks.
If you believe the severity should vary on the degree of harm caused by the hate speech, then we mostly agree on everything
I would say I've been harrassed for being queer a lot of times and I've never seen a bigot be afraid, threats and punishment just make them feel vindicated sadly
they can feel however they like. the important thing is that there's a threat of violence associated with continuing to be a bigot.
yeah...
it's not pleasant, but it's important to remember that they can opt out of future consequences by simply choosing to be different.
the targets of their hate don't have that luxury. they will always be targets.
If you believe the severity should vary on the degree of harm caused by the hate speech, then we mostly agree on everything
I would say I've been harrassed for being queer a lot of times and I've never seen a bigot be afraid, threats and punishment just make them feel vindicated sadly
I think they are being a little unserious. Maybe they're in a mood or something. I don't think this approach would increase hatred except to the state, but you would also literally have most of society in prison, so . . .
the more serious answer is that you suspend the sentences for minor offenders and attempt to rehabilitate them. repeat offenders need to be separated from society with more intensive reeducation. but the threat needs to be there to prevent them from organizing against the state by stoking latent bigotries.
fear doesn't work with bigots, fear makes them more extreme, all the escalations in hatred they've done is because they manufactured something to be afraid about, like conspiracy theories and made up panics, they should be stripped of their power to do harm, so their platform, but more severe punishments would only give them an even bigger narrative to boast about I think..
I think they'll just say the hate speech where they know people who'd report it can't hear them and their hatred will grow because they'll get to feel like opressed victims and make up conspiracies about the gay world order and whatever. Or they'll save the hate speech and commit more horrible crimes without any traceable precedent if lax stuff will get them jailed anyways
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for perjury: 🙂
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for making a threat: 🙂
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for conspiracy to commit murder: 🙂
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for blackmail: 🙂
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for lying to the shareholders: 🙂
First Amendment fans when someone is arrested for saying that we need to kill all the gays because they’re grooming children: 😡😡😡
obviously if they say something that extreme it should be punished
for those with a lot of power like those in the daily wire, for me prison is definitely way too little, those people are extremely evil and vile and their words have killed many innocent lives, but to have that exact response for every bigot as if they cause the same amount of harm feels like an overreach...
A socialist system of justice would be focused on treatment and rehabilitation. Most minor offenders would probably receive a suspended sentence and not have to do jail time as long as they followed the conditions of their probation.
As for repeat offenders and propagandists there has to be an effective deterrent to prevent them from endangering targeted minorities.
they need to be separated from society but I don't think it's obvious that they're past reeducation and rehabilitation. if rehabilitation fails, yeah, I agree.
They will be rehabilitated through labor in the poetry mines
I agree
In a government with like red cops, yeah. I’m not fundamentally opposed to the use of force, in fact I think we should use it very liberally against people who aren’t communist.
if that's most of the population how will you get support?