It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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Dude just loves riling himself up into a frenzy, doesn’t he? I guess he was mad that Hasan was going to interview Obama, which never even happened, and now he thinks Hasan is a “genocide supporter” because a random YouTube clip he came across that said “Hasan supports Kamala’s policies”, which he never even watched and was most likely just clipped. Hasan isn’t perfect, but fuck, you think at least him going to the DNC as a journalist would be considered fair from BE. Wild.
Hasan is just following in the footsteps of AOC where he spends some time critiquing Democratic policies but then spends every waking moment trying to get cozy with the Democratic party.
Hasan can't have it both ways where he's an "outsider" that gets kicked out of the Convention for saying some stuff on stream that made the DNC or Donors angry, but then also had spent all that time trying to get into the Convention in the first place so he could stream from the Convention and attract as many Democratic party hogs who wanted to watch the convention via Twitch.
You're either outside the convention, demonstrating against it and explicitly against a genocide, or you're just trying to keep an audience just happy enough by saying that a genocide is bad, while you try and triangulate enough in order to get into the Convention and "network"
It can't be both, and unfortunately BadEmpenada is correct for once about something.
It's also the case that it's one internet personality trying to start shit with a more popular internet personality in order to get clout, but the point still stands.
Deeply unserious lol
Like someone on here comparing PSL to trots.
I'm the unserious one?
Respectfully disagree with the mods decision to delete this. Equating Hasan with AOC is an ignorant statement to make due to evidence of him being far more radical than her. Thus any attempt for me to reply to their argument in good faith, I feel, is tainted from the get-go.
#1 donor to the amazon labor union btw
bill gates is the #1 donor to alleviating Malaria and has likely saved millions of lives
are we going to adopt the Bill Gates political platform now?
surely you're not equivocating medical colonialism and giving money to support a worker's union that your "boss" opposes. that would be a genuinely deranged equivocation.
but you're clearly on a real tear here and in need of some grass touching, so i'll be blocking you if you feel the need to continue to pop off at me. you are clearly scrolling this thread for hours looking for people to try to argue with and it's seriously neither healthy nor productive.
Your dislike of this statement does not make it ignorant
I'm sorry you feel that I would reply in bad faith. I don't understand why I would come across that way and frankly it's hurtful that you think that.
PSL does have a Trot genealogy, though is ML. Socialist Workers Party -> Workers World Party -> PSL. SWP was Trot. WWP were an OG tankie split and the origin of Marcyism, literally led by Marcy. They adopted more ML stances but didn't shed all Trotskyist thought. So many people handing out little papers and making unrealistic proclamations about what organized labor would do in the imperisl core. Then PSL split off of that over internal organizational disputes. PSL seems to have been on the right side of that and is obviously now even cooler and more ML, and explicitly so.
But I do think see echoes of its Trotskyist parentage from time to time. For example, putting so much energy into electoral vanguardism, aping Bolshevik structures, and coming across as detached from the community when it comes to local work. To me, one of the more salient failures of Trots is in how they tend to aesthetically go through the motions of an idealized canon of What Trotsky Said To Do, which is often just what Lenin et al developed for their conditions, and generally fail to do the science of revolution. Much time spent self-congratulating, picking bad fights with others while repeating boilerplate lines, and then launching into the Next Big Thing that is Very Communist because leadership made A Great Speech. This does not describe PSL, but I do think you can see legacy bits of that kind of thinking pop up on occasion.
We won't know what he was going to do with an interview with Obama now, unfortunately, but it would have been very telling.
I have a degree of respect for journalists who curry favour to gain access in order to really press issues and do the actual job of (adversarial) journalism. There's a fine line to walk if you want to do this because it's extremely easy to get blacklisted, especially these days.
I think one good example of being behind enemy lines like this for the sake of journalism is Abby Martin going to Israel to interview average Israelis on the streets to get them to indict themselves via vox pop. It would be uncharitable to denounce Martin for going to Israel and speaking with Israelis given what she went there for and what she achieved.
Whether Hasan had intended a similar angle w/interviewing Obama or any other big figure in the Democratic Crime Syndicate idk but I think there's an argument to be made that simply rubbing shoulders with them does not necessarily mean that you are a Compradorpoints-esque figure.
The other side of the argument is that he was allowing himself to be coopted and he was betraying his principles for cash and clout. This is where a conflict emerges between the more liberal-oriented model of the "objective" or politically-neutral journalist and the person who has an overtly political platform (but I don't really buy into that paradigm personally) however what Hasan was doing was the inverse; rather than starting from the place of journalistic inquiry and becoming politically partisan, he started from the place of political partisanship and was intending to pursue a journalistic endeavour. I think this makes the issue so much more complex because we are going to view his actions as politics-first, even if he is attempting to do something journalism-first, but to stand on ground for your political beliefs only to rescind them to start pursuing journalistic endeavours does give a strong impression of reneging on your politics.
For me I absolutely cannot be fucked trawling through hours of streams in the lead up and the aftermath to glean some insight into what he had planned to do because he just isn't that important to me. So that leaves me feeling cautious about Hasan until I get some good info shedding light on this from a trustworthy source but I personally don't think that this alone is sufficient for me to consider him persona non grata as it stands.
AOC supports Kamala for president, Hasan does not. Before Kamala's speech, Hasan said "I'll wait and see" with respect to whether he supports Kamala, but now, he is very vocal about the fact that he does not support Kamala for president.
Or maybe you meant Hasan is following in AOC's footsteps in some other way?
As I said, he spends some time critiquing Democratic policies but is also still trying to stay acceptable to the Democratic party overall, since that's who his audience is. Eventually he will get co-opted just like AOC did.
What is wrong with advocating for Palestinian emancipation with other protestors outside the DNC, inside the DNC, and with the Uncommitted movement outside the DNC, and then getting kicked out for it?
The statement is pretty vague, do you have a specific example of something Hasan did or said at or outside of the DNC that you take issue with?
don't bother their analysis is purely vibes based and completely uninformed. theres a huge difference between AOC stanning for kid killer kamala and Hasan literally trying to infiltrate the DNC to provide a single pro-palestinian voice on the inside, and getting kicked out for interviewing the excluded protestors and uncommmitted movement. literally just watch a single stream or video of his, he is CONSTANTLY criticizing democrats, more often than republicans. its not just some kind of '''triangulation''' thing, hasan is literally doing what a journalist is supposed to do in this situation, bringing the pro palestine anti genocide message to people who would otherwise not have heard it. idk what idiot footfaults got this opinion from because it sure as shit didn't come from actually watching hasan.
what part of infiltrating the DNC to spread pro-palestine arguments requires him hugging the pod jons and giving AOC a platform to spew her bullshit
he explicitly says all the time that he is overly nice to people on camera even when he disagrees with them so that he can hopefully deprogram their followers. its like you don't understand the concept of media or propaganda, or are being intentionally obtuse.
also, i think there's a fundamental disconnect from Hasan and his fans who see the DNC libs as annoying and misinformed but fundamentally OK people.
I, and other hardline communists, see the US as a fourth reich and the DNC as little Nazi genocidal fucks. When I see someone who is supposed to be "on my side" cozying up with them and hugging them, I don't think "wow so glad he is de-radicalizing those fascists" I think "what the fuck is this rich shithead doing? Is he a traitor to our cause like all the other people who schmooze up to the nazis have been historically"
the opposite is happening, his followers are being programmed to being more complacent and OK with podjons and DNC "progressives"
if thats the plan then someone at the DNC has clearly fucked up
i take issue with him setting up interviews with AOC and hanging out with the Pod Jons and hugging them and doing networking
I don’t take issue with him because he’s constantly attacking the dems, raising money for Palestine, was a guest on the Deprogram, and straight up said in a recent stream that “the revolution won’t be voted in”.
you don't take issue with him because he's hot and your "friend"
everything else is ad hoc
What? lol
I’m not even a rabid follower of his stuff and like I said in the OP, dude’s not perfect, but he isn’t nearly as bad as people talk about.
lmao bro he's just a streamer. At least, unlike badempanada he doesn't spend half his time being insufferable and punching left and hating on every still standing socialist government while being an expat living a cushy life in south America by pandering to self hating western anti-communists that want to also act like the smartest most ultra left children online.
fuck them both but fuck BadEmpanada more for larping like the most principled leftist ever while basically just being a whiny little twerp on the internet all the time.
tell that to his defenders here, because half the comments are about how he is the vanguard of the revolution and doing heckin praxis
You want your cake and eat it too. Is Hassan a serious political subject? Then he is open for criticism for being a radlib DNC bootlicker. Is he just a silly streamer? Then why are people here making these dumbass arguments about how he is working towards communism with twitch characteristics?
what vanguard? there's no vanguard in the anglosphere. Communism has no foothold in America. 0.000% of Communism has been built here
tell that to the users in here talking about how much epic praxis he's doing (including you, who say he's a "pipeline"). If he's a "pipeline" then where that pipeline is dumping people out to is open to criticism. I don't see the point of moving people from one radlib camp to another, it's just celebrity parasocial shit combined with all the identitarian flavors of ideology to feel special. It's all radlib shit and it's actually damaging to any forming left because you have a bunch of would-be leftists in here making zionist-adjacent arguments filled with credulity like "He was on the fence about Kamala".
Anybody who is "on the fence about Kamala" isn't a Marxist or is lying. Anybody in here defending that shit is so attached to his dick they can't think straight and are shrinking into a DNC progressive corncob
he radicalized my brother, so I'm just speaking from experience. Let he (on the splinter site from their subreddit) who has never listened to Chapo Trap House throw the first stone
He has radicalized some people, which is GOOD but c'mon that doesn't shield him from critique.
Like, even my critique of him is after watching a ton of his clips about the DNC and Kamala and Gaza but that doesn't make him impervious to critique.
I'm not saying don't watch him, or that he's bad.
100%. He’s not immune and he’s made some wack moves and has some wack views. I think some of the shit he did at the DNC and was unambiguously cringe, like the stuff with the PodJons. I think he did lend too much benefit-of-the-doubt to the Harris campaign, but has since course-corrected after her campaign was entirely disambiguated.
I just think his presence and role is an overall positive for the American socialist movement in the state it is, and my anecdotal experience shows him successfully moving people outside of the confines of liberalism, so I’m willing to lend him an assumption of good faith at the very least due to that.
Seek grass
that's my line
you guys are the ones defending the guy who streams 10 hours a day and has a bunch of children glued to their computers and phones
You're the one defending a dipshit streamer that does nothing but sit in his gamer chair and punch left more than anything else these days while trying to cosplay as the most principled leftist in the room and actually doing zero praxis IRL. At least Hasan doesn't pretend to be anything more than a pseudo-left himbo streamer.
Stay in your fuckin lane.
I never defended BE, lmao. Both of them are dumbasses and I hate all streamers. Please read closer next time
You are literally doing that right now in this thread by endorsing his hypocritical comments about Hasan.
Both can get fucked but BE is objectively worse.
"endorsing his comments"
Lmao i'm just mocking Hasan for being a DNC shill. Just because some dumbass ultra also has that criticism doesn't make it wrong.
So whenever an ultra and a radlib are squabbling we have to pick a side apparently? How about they both shut the fuck up? Is that not an option? I'm not the one who decided to make a thread white-knighting one of the sides and filled it with radlib users making credulous dipshit arguments like "Hasan was on the fence about Kamala"
to be fair, wait and see is a deeply unserious position on Kamala. I think it is fair to say that is triangulation. There was plenty of information on Kamala's stances.
Oh so he was on the fence about genocide and if she said enough nice words he would support the genocidal party? This is why people on this site hate Hassan and his defenders, it makes you say dumb ass shit like this. He cozies up to the DNC, and you cozy up to him, and by association you are now making quasi-pro-genocidal arguments. Like your parasocial attachment has made you 35% more zionist.
He was waiting to see specifically whether or not she'd change policies on genocide
then he's stupid, and he should know better, because she was never going to do that. What she might have done, if she wanted to appeal to youth voters, is give lip service to holding Israel accountable, like Obama and Reagan other presidents have done in the past. And if she did that he would be giving her kudos and promoting her.
This level of incredulity and naivety is frustrating to deal with. You and I and Hassan should all know Democrats are never ever going to fucking stop supporting Israel. If Hassan doesn't know that, he's a stupid radlib. If he does, he's a networking grifter. There's no good world where someone smart and marxist holds out hope Kamala will become anti-imperialist randomly.
I suppose it depends on whether he had any real expectation that she would be anything other than a supporter of Zionism to the hilt. If he thought she was anything else, he was foolish. But if he just wanted to set up his lib followers for radicalizing disappointment, that is not a bad strategy for a humble Twitch streamer lol. It's the same basic steps that netted us a bunch of new commies when Bernie (a Zionist socdem!) was ratfucked.
Why are you attributing this 5d chess to him? If Kamala had been tactical and instead offered lip service to 'hold israel accountable' or some shit he's pitched a slowball to the DNC to hit it out of the park. They just didn't even swing, because they don't care about youth voters whatsoever. Hasan was trying to give the DNC the path out, telling them exactly how to sheepdog his viewers back in, and they scorned him - but if they had instead accepted his offer and given lipservice to the anti-zionists then they would have eaten it up
Reagan and Obama held Israel on a tighter leash, which would not have been an unreasonable expectation at all of Kamala. Nobody expected her to put on a Hamas headband and invade Tel Aviv, but compared to the uniquely fanatical zionist Biden it would not have surprised me to see Kamala do the bare minimum and actually take action to stop Israel's current onslaught.
I want to +1 this. My expectation was that Kamala would try and triangulate on Gaza by saddling Biden with all the bad decisions, make some noise about Gaza and put Israel on a tighter leash. Do just enough to put one over on the uncommitted movement by making some symbolic gestures and reap the rewards.
But instead, no, she goes with maximalist support for Israel and the current policy.
I think that there have been plenty of times before the Convention where it was made very clear that she's not going to change direction.
I felt this way, and for me personally it was the "I'm speaking" moment where it became clear to me. That was at least a couple weeks before the Convention.