askchapo

how magnanimous of you to admit that you don't think china has death camps.

if you knew fuck all about the region besides what the US State Department wants you to know, western asia has been a locus for US backing of opium gangsters and religious extremists for over 50 years. western backing of the same has been going on there for over 100 years, all in service of destabilizing the eastern powers at all costs. it was western-backed psychos that burned down thousands of schools to prevent literacy among women, and opium warlords that threw acid in the face of women politicians.

the only reason you can even name an ethnic group in western china is because china has figured out how to stop it from working, and the west is furious at losing their #1 strategy.

go close your own literal death campus and make some actual meaningful gesture towards respecting human rights, then you can weigh in on what is happening in places where there isn't a Burger King.

The thing that convinced me was the data used to support the claim that sterilisation was occuring at record rates - which was technically true, but the jump was from 50 to 250 sterilisations per 100,000 people.

Declining birth rates is occuring across the world, but we don't have to refute claims about genocides in Hong Kong or South Korea which are both much lower than Xinjiang.

We can’t definitively say that they aren’t abusing human rights. So, maybe we don’t make claims we can’t prove either?

This is shifting the goal posts

The discussion is about genocide, the destruction of an entire ethnic group, not human rights abuses. I don't doubt that there are human rights abuses at a reeducation camp - by its very nature, any form of imprisonment will involve the abuse of human rights - and this is the conclusion the UN came to

Genocide is a much more serious and extraordinary claim to make, far beyond "human rights abuses". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there's been zero evidence of a genocide

If you don’t have sources, why are you engaging in debate?

Doesn't even cite sources in the response, makes an edit complaining about the eeevil Hex-bear tankies going after them.

The fact that Islamic countries haven’t spoken out could well be that they are also known for religious persecution. Turkey spoke out against China's treatment of Muslims in 2009 and got hit for it. To this day, China reminds them not to mention it. There’s a lot of money moving there plus the belts and roads initiative.

Is this really the simplest explanation, that every single Muslim-majority country is completely bought off and/or just doesn't mind "religious persecution" in the abstract, even if it's fellow Sunni Muslims being persecuted?

Even Saudi Arabia, a country that is Sunni by vast majority and also financial very deeply tied to the US -- involving arguably one of the single most significant financial ties in the world, i.e. the petrodollar -- has come to China's defense on this subject.

Surely you see how, with a complete lack of specific evidence, what you're saying is no better than a crass conspiracy theory, right? Frankly speaking, it's a racist one at that, assuming all of these countries and peoples, because they are "also known for religious persecution [of other groups!]" can be causally bought off and thereby shrug off an atrocity of profound proportions as a country's worth of Muslims get eradicated.

or take advice from here and use straw man arguments, whataboutisms, and generally attack anyone that doesn’t 100% line up with your opinion

I, too, wish they held their temper slightly, but it makes no sense to cry about opinions when it comes to accusing a country of genocide, the gravest and most morally disgusting crime any nation has ever committed.

It's also a crime that, when it is actually happening, has produced a wealth of evidence, evidence that we do not have in China's case.

It’s not clear cut. We can’t definitively say that they aren’t abusing human rights. So, maybe we don’t make claims we can’t prove either?

We? Who's we?

You to bullshit to pretend you're not a Western chauvanist.

We are communists who understand how imperialist propaganda works, and why libs like you believe it.

I see a couple comments you posted before (since removed) excusing the American government for overlooking the Palestinian genocide.

So it's interesting that genocide becomes an important issue for you when it can be used as a cudgel against China.

And fuck off with your whiny edits about how you're just a lil guy getting dogpiled. If you want to have a good faith disagreement about China or whatever that's more than allowed here, providing you make a real attempt. Which you did not.

Sorry you stumbled onto one square milimetre of internet that doesn't follow imperial narratives.You wanna feel validated in your anti China sentiment? Go read or watch any major media outlets, speak with any politician, or talk to 90 percent of random people where you live. They will all share in those opinions.

there has been a significant drop in Uyghur birth rates.

-The Uyghur people, along with ~50 other officially recognized minority groups, were exempt from the one child policy. When the one child policy was ended a few years ago and was replaced with a more general three child policy, these minority groups were no longer exempted.

-There is a direct correlation between rising living standards and declining birth rates, and China is a relatively rapidly developing country, obviously including the Xinjiang region were most of the Uyghurs live.

IMO these two points go a pretty long way in explaining the drop in Uyghur birth rates.