SnailMagnitude

TBF someone did say stream 'wasn't a great name' which was the harshest criticism of Red Hat I heard.

If: "The entire Linux community is seemingly latched on to one side" as you say it might not have been too difficult to source someone knowledgeable with a slightly different opinion to that of someone on Red Hat's payroll for at least an interesting debate, or follow up podcast as presumably Red Hat/ IBM don't want employees debating this stuff.

If, as you say, the entire community is seemingly against them, a balanced take doesn't seem to be 2 people just agreeing with an employee about company policy and denigrating "freeloaders".

I've been watching shitty behavior from Red Hat for well over a decade now and am not a fan of the company but I'm happy to be written off as a tinfoil hat wearing relic of the past....but people like Jeff Geerling describing them as sticking a knife in his back, twisting it and abusing the community should at least give a little pause for thought. He explicitly says he doesn't want Red Hat employees patronizing him with exactly the sort of stuff the Red Hat employee is being encouraged to do in the podcast.

Jeff always seemed like quite a reasonable and easy going chap to me and doesn't often use his platform to discuss being stabbed, abused, patronized and made a fool out of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF5pyVUQBH8

In light of the community response to the Red Hat situation that podcast really did feel like a marketing piece from Red Hat.

Things are getting entertaining though as Oracle have indeed, as hoped, stepped up to question Red Hat's moral ethics 😂 https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/10/oracle_ibm_rhel_code/

I use it on my laptop & pi mainly as I'm lazy. Fedora was the only 'just works' option for a 2010 macbook, the kernel seemed touchpad & keymap friendly unlike everything else I tried. The systemd out of memory killer made the system completely unusable and disabling the service doesn't actually disable the service at all which led me to shout some sweary words, eventually found a guide on how to mask systemd services.

Last time I tried Gentoo & Void on my pi I spent a day on it and couldn't get smooth 2160p playback with Kodi so I tried Raspberry Pi OS which, perhaps unsurprisingly, 'just worked' in this department.

I will get round to converting them at some point as I don't plan on upgrading Fedora beyond 37 and the pi4 2160p playback is solvable when I have a little time.

Fair point...but it seems the Debian stuff being included in their images is all software.

Hey Zucca, I've not been around fgo much since around the time otw vanished but remember you from there and I'm still a happy portage user.

Listening to the podcast at the moment, it's grim. They have a Red Hat employee as the special guest and just agree 100% with the company line. I think I'm meant to feel sorry for poor little Red Hat & IBM being taken advantage of but it just all feels very silly. I'm gonna have to turn it off shortly but so far it feels like a paid advert for Red Hat. Nothing but positivity for Red Hat and being pretty nasty about anyone who doesn't 100% agree with Red Hat.

Debian only support systemd, if you want systemd free Debian there are forks of the project like Devuan...but then you are no longer running an OS officially supported by the Debian foundation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License

LGPL, less user freedom, more room to entangle with proprietary crapware.

Firmware is software.

Red Hat are not losing their minds. A recent post from Ted here makes it pretty clear that IBM call the shots and couldn't give two fucks about anyone other than paying enterprise customers. Red Hat's recent rant about freeloaders and attempts to lock stuff down doesn't help the situation imo.

Pretty sure they are absolutely relying on Red Hat. Red Hat provide the system plumbing for most linux distros, under the lgpl, and are heavily integrated into RHEL, Fedora, Rocky, Alma, Cent, Wayland, Pulseaudio, Pipewire & Gnome development.

If no one relied on Red Hat the whole Cent/Rocky/Alma mess wouldn't be an issue at all and Rocky would have no need for this sort of entertaining gymnastics. Debian would not have had the most publicly painful year I've even seen it go through with the systemd debate and Lennart would not have issued Gentoo with a wakeup call from Red Hat.

I started using linux regularly around 2011 and the communities I joined then were concerned about Red Hat's future plans and putting safeguards in place. Pat Volkerding, Daniel Robbins, Gentoo, Void, Crux and many others are better prepped to manage Red Hat going postal as they have been cautious of their approach for a decade or more.

If Linus goes postal, not to worry, it's foss, we can just fork the kernel, write a new one or get hurd feature complete over the weekend.

IBM/RH have been a major contributor to Gnome for over a decade. Yamakuzure, Dantrell, Gentoo, Drobbins and others have helped ensure it remains portable.

My preference is i3/dwm ,or if pushed lxqt or xfce4.

I don't know much about KDE at all.

I don't doubt that relying on Red Hat's code makes life easier.

My needs are minimal. I can get by on openrc, runit, systemd or sysv.

Curious to see where s6 goes.

I lost interest in Arch when Tom Gunderson was aggressively promoting systemd whilst being funded by Red Hat, I was sad when Debian made the decision to rely on Red Hat to take care of the low level system plumbing.

My tinfoil hat from around 2010 still seems relevant.

No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVjzH-UbP6E

linked added to the OP....odd, I posted it as a link, but added an image which seems to be the only visible content.

Sorry, new here & confused by stuff.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2023/7/6/1228

Debian had a very long and painful public debate to eventually depend exclusively on systemd, from Red Hat. I'm not so sure they choose wisely to heavily depend upon RH/IBM LGLP code.

The new release is the first ever, I think, to offer non-free software by default.

Personal opinion is that Gentoo had it right all along. They spend a lot of time & man hours ensuring pretty much anything coming from Red Hat, that isn't being filtered by Linus, is optional. They created eudev, elogind & made Gnome portable again when Red Hat tried to shut down portability. Neddy shows that you can run a bleeding edge system whilst not depending on much at all from Red Hat over the past 15yrs or so.

Very