this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2024

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US to Hezbollah: Don’t count on us to stop an Israeli attack (www.politico.com)

submitted 4 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The American message is designed to get the Lebanese-based Shiite militia to back down and de-escalate the brewing crisis along the Israeli-Lebanese border, a person familiar with the discussions said.

I'm not quite sure that's the right approach. It discourages brinkmanship, but also encourages them and Iran to go all-in since broader Israeli action is coming either way. Y'know, the way Iran didn't with that rocket exchange, because the US seemed present and reasonable enough to negotiate with.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Us arms and aid won't save the idf from hizbollah

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If we're talking about just arms vs. arms, Hezbollah is far weaker. They probably have the ability to draw Israel into a lengthy guerilla war a la Afghanistan, which will eventually make Israel admit the whole thing is pointless, but that also would mean that Iran doesn't decide to join in the fight. I still think Israel would have the stronger military in that case, but the bigger issue there would be that out of those three groups, only Israel has nukes and they aren't concerned about the spread of fallout if they lob one at Tehran like they would be in Gaza.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafe -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Israel lost to Hezbollah twice before and they were nowhere near as strong now.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Lost in what way? In that Hezbollah still exists? Because see above re guerilla war.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Genocide Joe says he's good for more Genocide. Not less Genocide.

More news at 11.

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Me, as a non American, every time I read genocide Joe I feel the cringe vibes crawling to me. It's genocide america

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafe 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

True. Blaming the genocide on Joe Biden misses the point that the genocide will be happening no matter who is president.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Which in turn ignores the fact that only Biden is CURRENTLY the president and accountable for his own actions (which include material aid and political cover to the point that the US in general and the executive branch in particular is an active PARTICIPANT in the genocide rather than just a biased bystander) and that he's acting against the wishes of not just the vast majority of the people who voted for him, but also the majority of the population in general.

I don't like the use of the term either, as it makes legitimate criticism seem disingenuous if not downright Trumpian, but that doesn't mean that it's inaccurate.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafe 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I do agree with you. Biden can stop it but chooses not to, he is a Zionist. But no one will become US president unless they are Zionists until something is done about AIPAC. Biden is as guilty as he can be, and it the same time completely irrelevant, just a warm body that will be replaced with another.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I get what you're saying, but I strenuously disagree with your central assertion that there's no point in legitimate criticism of a sitting president as long as there isn't currently a better president available.

You don't just get a free pass to commit crimes against humanity because there's nobody lined up who wouldn't.

That's lumping the US president in with the likes of Viktor Orban, Vladimir Putin, Benyamin Netanyahu, and other presidents whose subjects aren't allowed to criticize their worst actions.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafe 0 points 4 months ago

What I was trying to say is that the president is a symptom and focusing on the president distracts from the system that elects them, because good people do exist and the majority oppose what Biden is doing, they just don't seem to make it on the ballot. But you are right we can walk and chew gum at the same time, I am not taking any agency away from Biden, he is going to hell according to his own believes anyways.

[+] mindlight@lemm.ee -12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Hezbollah attacked Israel on the 8th of October and supported Hamas attacking and kidnapping civilians on the 7th October.

Iran is actively supporting conflicts in the Middle East, Europe and Africa. So either we start talking about the religious fanatics or we just accept the USA as the world police and we should just do as they tell us to do.

I'd personally prefer the former....

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Hezbollah did not attack israel on October 8.

Hezbollah attacked terrorists colonizing the Golan Heights. Those terrorists are illegally occupying Syrian land in violation of international law.

[+] mindlight@lemm.ee -6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm m ok with you rewriting it as long as you agree that Israel was attacked by Hezbollah on the 8th and that Hezbollah supports, not condemning, the war crimes of Hamas on the 7th.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

No israel attacked Hezbollah this has just been clearly explained and is not disputed.

Hezbollah defended itself against israeli aggression.

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Please elaborate and feel free to edit Wikipedia:

On 8 October 2023, the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, taking advantage of the Israel–Hamas war, fired guided rockets and artillery shells at Israeli positions in the occupied Shebaa Farms. Israel retaliated by launching drone strikes and artillery shells at Hezbollah positions near Lebanon's boundary with the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights. The outbreak of the conflict had followed Hezbollah's declaration of support and praise for the Hamas attack on Israel, which took place on 7 October.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

That Wikipedia article is written like pure Zionist propaganda and it still doesn't say that Hezbollah attacked israel.

the occupied Shebaa Farms.

Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

Because no matter how many fluff words you include, the Golan Heights are not part of israel and those NaziDF members have absolutely no right to be there.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I don't want Israel and Hezbollah to go to war, but what will 'talking about the religious fanatics' achieve?

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Nothing except for deflection of blame for the many war crimes of the fascist apartheid regime of Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I agree that's where the blame lies, but even if they were right and the problem was religious fanaticism, talking about it achieves nothing.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It does for the genocide denying Zionists whose ONLY goal is to convince people that the actions of the Israeli government are justified. I suspect that the one you originally addressed was one of them, if not just a thoroughly gaslighted useful idiot 🤷

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Again, I agree with you. But OP made the implication that if we just talked this out, then there would be no war there and I wanted to nip that in the bud from the source before we even got into whether or not the OP was being disingenuous.

I feel like the best way to attack such things is by talking about how they are illogical or irrational arguments irrespective of the intentions of the person making them.

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Just because Hezbollah are not atheists does not make them religious fanatics. Sure, they talk about God every sentence but that's just traits from being Muslims. There are Muslims who pray for safety before going into a bathroom. Muslims generally call on God for everything; even where it wouldn't make sense to a Jew, Christian, atheist, etc.

If they were less religious, would you be OK for them defending their land more? You are failing into a trap that the Muslims defending themselves are doing it through religious fanaticism. You are falling into pro-Zionism propaganda. They just happen to be Muslims who are defending themselves while trying to process their actions internally in a way that fits their identity. It's not a religious war; it's Levantine people vs non-Levantine people.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I wasn't the one talking about religious fanatics, I was criticizing the person talking about them. Maybe you should reply to the person I replied to rather than berate me for what I didn't say and they did.

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Looks like you're right. Taking another look at your conversation, it seems you were arguing with a Hasbera (is that how its spelled).

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Thank you for this comprehensive account of all the events that have led to the current situation and for presenting us with the only two options available.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.cafe -4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

What you fail to understand is that Israel is a foreign colonial force and therefore has no right to self defense or to even exist. The only religious fanatics are the Zionist invaders who are trying to fulfill Iron Age mythologies about a Promised Land.

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago

"The only religious fanatics are the Zionist..."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure millions of women in Iran beg to differ.