this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 70 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Not voting is a sure fire way to have your voice ignored.

"You want change but you're not going to vote towards making it happen because it doesn't happen already? Why the fuck do you think things aren't changing for the better‽"

Voting is so fuckin important, especially in local elections. Local politics bleeds into county politics, which bleeds into state politics which bleeds into country politics.

It all starts locally.

You want bike lanes in your city? Vote.

You want better funding in your schools? Vote.

You want more affordable housing in your area? Vote.

Vote in every election. No exceptions.

[–] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (25 children)

Hi there, as a Seattle local I have a legitimate question for you. The local democrats I voted for turned around and gerrymandered the socialist 3 term serving city council member out of office. The only member that was actually pushing for the working class politics I wanted from my district representative. What kind of incremental change can I expect to really see when that is how the party at large operates?

Edit: laughing at these down votes, yall are deeply unseriouse people.

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

FYI I downvoted you because you whined about your downvotes. Just thought you should know.

Next time vote for someone else. Local races are where "vote blue, no matter who" means the least. They're the most likely place to see progressive change. If you saw unfortunate result because you put a check mark next to a D and expected something miraculous to happen, maybe you should start looking into the candidates instead of their party more often.

But, most of all. Don't expect everyone to think the same way you do. Often they will have different ideas of what progress is. Sometimes that means you'll see a step to the center, even if it's a step forward. Don't be disheartened just because you didn't get everything you wanted this time, and show up again. And again. And again. Because the only way progress will stall is if you stop showing up.

[–] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If you saw unfortunate result because you put a check mark next to a D and expected something miraculous to happen, maybe you should start looking into the candidates instead of their party more often.

WA state has top two elections so the majority of the time it's vote big D or little d. We also have statewide vote by mail so every election, primaries included, you can site down and research candidates as you mark off the ballot sheet, it's one of the few times I enjoy a glass of wine as I take my time with it as it takes up an entire evening.

Any other misconceptions I can clear up for you?

I don't see progress happening through the ballot box, increasingly I see more and more conservative liberals winning elections. And the progressives I once had hope for when they were first elected become more and more compromised as they try to work within the democratic party.

FYI I downvoted you because you whined about your downvotes. Just thought you should know.

Just as funny, but more so because you read commentary as complaining.

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[–] PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

To a lot of progressives, Democrats are backsliding away from progressivism, not moving slowly towards it. If they need progressives to win, they sure arent acting like it.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Get involved in politics and participate like hell

Influence your local elections to the best of your abilities and encourage others to do the same

The more stuff that can be done by getting people to act in a progressive way the more they'll be steered in that direction

And hell you could even try running in your local elections too, you'd be surprised how simple it can be in a lot of places

[–] PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I'm seeing people in this very thread being hesitant to admit that Democrats should probably court progressives for a victory.

A lot of people, even here on Lemmy, which is supposed to be quite left leaning, would rather Trump win than throw progressives a bone.

Perhaps I'm just reading into this too much, but it seems like Democrats are being actively hostile against progressives right now. How are we supposed to change things if they are being outright hostile towards progressivism?

This is the uphill battle that Democrats are going to have to face. You can't continuously alienate your voter base and then expect positive results. The base factually is already alienated. The question is, what will Democrats do to win them back? Is it too late? The clock is ticking And I don't think the Democrats are learning the correct lesson.

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[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 53 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The election will pan out how it'll pan out. I'm voting for Biden so I can give my friends the best chance we can get them.

I am not just voting, though, and you shouldn't stop at voting either.

Start working towards unionizing your workplace if you can. Join the IWW for training and networking (literally any worker can join).

Join and support any kind of solidarity network in your town you can (tenant unions, volunteer security details, food distributors, etc.) Hell, start one with your friends if there isn't one.

Participate in protests and public shows of solidarity. Don't back down.

Help the homeless. They've completely lost their voices and are constantly under attack by NIMBYs and cops, and it's likely that many people you know right now will be in their position in the future, especially if Trump's Elected.

Right now, 'the revolution' would never come. US citizens are atomized and divided, by highways, suburban sprawl, parking lots, hostile architecture, and the constant crushing weight of capitalist responsibilities. We've got to rebuilt the networks of solidarity we had during the union wars. That's the best way forward to a better US. Unionize, uplift your fellow workers, and keep pushing against the oppressors.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago

Start working towards unionizing your workplace if you can. Join the IWW for training and networking (literally any worker can join).

Join and support any kind of solidarity network in your town you can (tenant unions, volunteer security details, food distributors, etc.) Hell, start one with your friends if there isn’t one.

Participate in protests and public shows of solidarity. Don’t back down.

Based

[–] grue@lemmy.world 40 points 5 months ago (18 children)

I really shouldn't even have to go over this- we LIVED it already.

No, that's not true. In fact, that's incredible, delusional cope. What we lived already was nothing compared to what a term-limited Trump with nothing to lose backed by a fully-formed Project 2025 administration would be like.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Fair, but to their point, we know how it’ll play out - the press will fall in line, the sycophants will queue up, everyone will pretend this is fine, and absolute chaos will be the order of the day. That we’ve already lived before.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I don't give a shit about the press or the sycophants! The issue is what the fascists will actually do, not how they will be perceived. And what they're going to do is shit like this (from another Lemmy post today -- I didn't even have to look far to find it):

We're talking about purges, pogroms, gulags, maybe even mass-murder of leftists and minorities. That's not an "everyone will pretend this is fine" issue; that's an "everyone will be literally imprisoned or dead issue!"

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Yes, and when that doesn't happen, all the people who were expecting the apocalypse to happen (like they did with the last Trump presidency) will neglect to show up for the next election... again.

The fanatics and sycophants (like the one you literally posted) are a distraction from all the people actually making changes in background. The people appointing judges, the people capturing regulation for their own ends.

People talk about how we'll all be lined up and shot if we lose the presidency to Trump... but that's not how these people work. It has never been how these people work. 99% of what they do is pander to their base with wild claims of what they're going to do to the "woke-crowd" and the "socialists". Then when they get into office they block any kind of effective legislation and blame the left and the neo-liberals for standing in the way of "America".

Fascism in this country won't happen with a shotgun blast, it will happen with a shiv in the dark.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

"when that doesn't happen"

Like Roe v Wade getting reversed didn't happen?

[–] flerp@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

You should read some history books. It is happening EXACTLY like it happened in the past. Down to a T. Other fascist groups weren't successful their first attempt at seizing power either. Other fascist groups didn't go from 0 to gas chamber instantly.

The fact that they haven't yet lined people up against the wall does not mean they won't the second they feel they can get away with it.

The last time they tried to steal power was a practice run. One they've learned from. One that almost succeeded except for some key people who didn't bend their knee. Having people like that around is a mistake they will not make again.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Rationale people:

If Biden compromised with progressives it would guarantee a victory over trump...

"Moderates":

Fuck you fascist, you're worse than trump!

Yet when Biden gives Republicans everything they want like with the border, suddenly it's justified because some Republican voter somewhere has a 1% chance of voting D for the first time in their life.

Just weird how it works definitely

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[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 12 points 5 months ago (14 children)

Does anyone have any statistics on how many people are likely to vote for Joe because he keeps moving to the right? Like, how many people are ACTUALLY on the fence between Biden and Trump? Compare that to how many people won't vote or will vote 3rd party BECAUSE Biden keeps moving right.

Seriously, if they'd just come out and say "look, we've run the numbers, moving right gets us 10mil center right votes while losing us 1mil progressive votes, but moving left would only get us 5mil progressive votes while losing us 4mil center right votes" I'd get it and support the math. Gotta do it in good faith though... Assume progressives are not supporting Genocide Joe unless he moves left, not that they can be bullied into changing their minds.

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[–] archomrade@midwest.social 11 points 5 months ago

It's crazy to me that voting is the only political involvement for so many people.

We're in the middle of a cycle, this is the time to be really loud about what you'd like to see reflected in your party's policy, but instead everyone has skipped to the end, having relieved themselves of all the hard work of political engagement.

[–] blaue_Fledermaus@mstdn.io 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Brazil might have a lot of problems, but one thing I think our law gets right is treating voting not as a right, but as a duty, you don't get to choose not to vote.

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[–] Zachariah@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago
[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 9 points 5 months ago (12 children)

To all the Biden defenders: I get it. You're scared of another Trump term. I'm living in Europe and I'm not a fan of project 2025 myself. I have this seemingly simple question: what happens after the election?

If Biden wins, what do you expect to happen with all the MAGAs? How would you prevent another Jan 6th? What if it succeeded this time? How will you keep Biden accountable? Will you keep avoiding a fascist dictatorship every 4 years until the end of time?

And if Trump wins? Will you give up without a fight? Will you let them turn the US into a fascist theocracy?

Don't expect that your liberal democracy will sort itself out. There's too much on the line to hope for the correct election results and everythingsorting itself out afterwards. Have a plan that doesn't rely on elections and take the safety of your community into your own hands.

[–] Jordan117@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

If Biden wins, what do you expect to happen with all the MAGAs?

They will continue to exist, though weakened, and four more years of Democratic executive actions and appointments will steadily move the federal government further away from their position.

How would you prevent another Jan 6th? What if it succeeded this time?

Electing Democrats to critical state roles in 2022 helped a lot here. It's also useful having the election denier as the challenger, not the incumbent, plus we're all wise to their playbook. The multiple prosecutions of last cycles conspirators should also put a damper on things.

How will you keep Biden accountable?

Protests, op-eds, pressuring legislators, primary elections, etc.

Will you keep avoiding a fascist dictatorship every 4 years until the end of time?

Yes. Democracy requires active maintenance, from all of us, indefinitely. Giving up is how its enemies win.

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[–] sozesoze@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

It's still June, it's still months till the election. People still are entitled to voice their opinion about Bidens policies and demand he takes more steps to the left leveraging the only power they have, their vote. If people can't demand better policies now, when there is so much time left for Bidens team to course change, when are they allowed? It's crazy to see these types of posts since the democratic primaries.

As many people in this thread have already pointed out, Joe Biden can enact right wing policy after right wing policy, damaging the support of his core voter base for the slight chance that some Trump fanatic votes for him. But you can't expect him to try to convince left wing people by enacting progressive stuff, even though none of the candidates currently campaign for them?

It's insane that in the US, people on the left at the same time have the power to lose Biden the election by not voting for him and have not enough power to get any attention from him. I believe if Trump wins again, it is entirely on Biden and the DNC that they chose this candidate and this course, not having learned anything in 2016.

[–] ElderberryLow@programming.dev 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This next national election is simple: do you want 4 more years of Trump or not?

No: Vote for Joe Biden.

Yes: Vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain.

The republicans are a minority now and are trying everything to win the electoral college despite their minority status. They will LOVE you to not vote because of Biden’s stance on __________.

So make your choice.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

So why won't Biden move to the left again?

It's like that's never mentioned as an option these days, but isn't it easier to convince one person to compromise than tens of millions of people?

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 12 points 5 months ago

Because he is right wing and the current system is working in his favor.

The worst thing that could happen to the democrats is a competent opponent. They need trump in order to win so post election you’re so burned up from worrying about hard fascism you become more docile towards the shit were left with.

This is, i believe, why some rich fuckers donate to both sides. They cant purchase a president but they can purchase a party nominee and by making one of two choices completely unacceptable we are forced to take the alternative.

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 months ago (13 children)

"Just keep voting Whig" moment.

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