this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
69 points (86.3% liked)

Asklemmy

44184 readers
1183 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Body positivity is such a strange concept to me. There's efforts to reclaim words while simultaneously calling them bad if used as an insult. Ideally, people wouldn't be offended by someone describing their body with common descriptors, but socially there is so much value attributed to certain body types that it's almost impossible to avoid having an emotional response of some kind to various descriptors.

For example, It's not bad to be fat, but calling someone "fat" is almost universally considered a bad thing. The same definitely seems to go for the idea of being "short."

I'm asking this question because I can't put my finger on why but something seems to be different about the use of the term "short" from the use of the term "fat." I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality. On the other hand, height is a single-dimensional number. You either are above a certain threshold, or you aren't.

I recently learned that May 6th to May 10th is "short king week" because it's 5'6" to 5'10" which then prompted me to search for the origins of "short king" and apparently the person most-credited with popularizing the term is Jaboukie Young-White who claims the term was meant to include all men under 6 feet tall. The average adult male height is 5'9" leaving men considered roughly average to be called "short" which is still considered an insult by many.

I dunno. As a term that was intended to champion body positivity compared with how the term is actually used, what do you think of "short king?"

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 57 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I'm 5'6" and find the term childish and insulting. It's not the short part, it's the king part. I am not a king, I'm a regular guy working a regular job.

"Body positivity" is garbage. People should be honest and support healthy lifestyles. Twisting reality to make someone comfortable is detrimental to their physical and mental health.

I don't understand the reasoning but, across the board, it seems today's culture is very quick to accept literal delusions in place of reality for the sake of feelings and "mental well being".

[–] EssentialNPC@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

I think that you have internalized a version of body positivity that lies on the most extreme end of what is meant by that phrase. Body positivity - be comfortable with who you are and do not put down on others due to their body.

The odds are that I am significantly fatter than you. The odds also favor that I am significantly stronger than you, even if you lift weights. I can also probably walk all day much farther than you can.

Would it be healthier if I lose body fat? Absolutely. Have I tried for 20 years to do that? Yes. I am not ignorant regarding nutrition. I am not lazy. I am not overall lacking willpower. I am fat but otherwise healthy.

Body positively means that my doctor treats my body fat as what it is - one aspect of my overall health. He does not assume that every problem I have is because I am fat, even though changing that would improve some aspects of my health.

Body positively also means that I am not going to hide when I go to the beach. I am going to go shirtless and enjoy myself. If you do not find me sexually attractive, that is fine. If you are going to shame or mock me for my body fat, then you are an asshole. If I catch wind of you mocking me, I will quietly estimate how many times your bodyweight I will deadlift on Monday. If you choose to mock the scars that cover parts of my body from extreme, life-saving surgery, I may feel the need to firmly educate you on exactly what sort of asshole you are.

Body positively often conjures the image of a morbidly obese girl on OnlyFans who lets people pay to watch her binge and intentionally get fatter while she says being purposefully inactive is just as healthy as hitting the gym. The real versions of that person are extremely rare, but their radicalism, vociferous nature, and platform make their voices much louder in comparison. Their argument is also easy to find flaw with and mock, so they get used as if they are a typical example of body positivity.

You are right in that the woman I describe above needs help and is not behaving in a safe or healthy way. I also understand why you might think that is the norm. She is not, though, and I would encourage you to look deeper at the meaning of the "movement."


The "you" above is generic and based on broad assumptions. You, the reader, might be stronger than me and have way more endurance than me. You also might be fatter than I am. The odds are very good that you are also not an asshole. My point was to call out variances from the norm as convenient examples, of which I have plenty in both directions.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 16 points 7 months ago (14 children)

I agree that we should strive for people to be healthy. But there's a lot of evidence to suggest that shame not only is ineffective but can actually have the opposite effect.

Besides, I think you're being pretty reductive. Health includes both physical and mental, we should take steps to improve both of these. And I get the sense that you specifically take issue with body positivity specifically around fat people, as I assume you don't think being short or tall is unhealthy. In which case, you're ignoring the economics of it (at least in America, there are a ton of government subsidies for corn, incentivizing businesses to load up our food with corn syrup).

The issue is complex and so would any solutions. At least in America, we need to deincentivize the production of unhealthy food, better access to healthcare, and cultural shifts as well. And I'm sure there's a whole lot I'm missing.

load more comments (14 replies)
[–] SteposVenzny@beehaw.org 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do you think short people are living an unhealthy lifestyle?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Stern@lemmy.world 53 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I recall a tweet from a ways back-

sometimes you have to be a bit mentally ill to get mentally well so if thinking naruto would be proud of you for brushing your teeth is what gets you to brush your teeth well grab that toothbrush dattebayo

If calling yourself a short king lets you kick your insecurities ass well then here's your crown my dude 👑

[–] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

I'm a man, I'm 5'5" and I'm far beyond caring about my height. It bothered me in high school but I found out shortly after it really doesn't matter that much if you carry yourself confidently.

That said, I've seen a number of other cis men find confidence in themselves by using short king self referentially and hearing people they want to date celebrate "short kings", so it seems to be a useful term. I've also seen a number of trans men find it to be a confidence boosting term, combating the dysmorphia of their perceived height deficiency.

I'll revel in such things with my friends for laughs, but, ultimately, it doesn't do much for me, but I like seeing what it's done for others.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 38 points 7 months ago

I think that “championing body positivity” for any class of adult humans is undignified. I think that doing a special extra thing for people in order to reverse the polarity of a judgment about that aspect of them is cruelly mocking them for that aspect of them.

Perhaps there’s something about that short guy that’s actually awesome, and doesn’t require childish lies and role-playing to communicate.

If someone called me “small dick king” I would hate them forever, despite whatever positive intentions they might have had when they said it. Do not make my weakness the key point of my persona, even if you include that awkward attempt at “positivifying” it. Just call me “Intensely Human, master wordsmith” or something that’s actually positive. Don’t treat me like I’m a five year old, using keywords to remap my negative qualities into positive ones.

The whole idea of using a term, that’s special to short men, to “champion” (verbing nouns is horrible) body positivity in short men, makes me feel nauseous.

If we want to respect short men, let’s do so in action, not in word choice.

[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 18 points 7 months ago

I'm on the tall side of average (tall to some, average to others, short to few), and to me it's always sounded like it's mocking short guys, and if I were short I don't think I'd want to be called that.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

if you highlight a feature as "now its positive", what you're actually saying "normally it's negative"

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It's silly. And 5'10" isn't short for a guy, and I say that as a tall lady. I don't think most guys like feeling short, that's problematic in itself but yeah, as you say, I would feel "short king" a backhanded compliment.

In general I think worrying about things people didn't choose and can't change is the worst. I feel slightly different about worrying about weight, but that's my own baggage.

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

King / queen is insta cringe

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I'm a relatively short guy at 5'6". My take on this is firstly that I dislike being called "king" because it sounds patronizing, especially by someone who knows nothing about me (that just feels insincere). Secondly, I'm comfortable, even happy, with my height. There have been many times I've been glad that I wasn't taller. It's kinda funny watching taller folks hitting their heads on things and complaining about cars being too small.

With my shortness being accepted by myself, someone else randomly pointing it out by explicitly calling me a "short king" in an effort to promote body positivity makes me think that in order for them to be recognizing shortness as a potentially negative trait means they likely thought of it as a negative in the past and are now patting themselves on the backs for being "enlightened" and subtly shaming others who still haven't "evolved" to their level. It feels like less of a compliment and more of a circle jerk.

Also, I don't feel like shortness needs any championing. Going back to the topic of obesity in the discorse of body positivity, I think it's a great idea to treat people as people regardless of weight. But I think the implied premise stated by OP is flawed in this regard. I do think being happy with being overweight is different than being happy about being short. There are no apparent benefits to being overweight, since it generally increases risk factors in all kinds of medical issues. With this in mind, body positivity regarding weight should focus on encouraging others to lose weight without shaming them. The same is not true of being short. Besides the impossibility of people making themselves taller even if they wanted to, there's no negative to a person's well-being or quality of life because of it.

I can't remember any time in my life that I've ever been called short as an insult either. This post just seems to be attempting to fix a non-issue. In summary, I would rather no one speak the words "short king" at all. Just go with "you're such a badass" if you wanna give a compliment.

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

There have been many times I've been glad that I wasn't taller. It's kinda funny watching taller folks hitting their heads on things and complaining about cars being too small.

6'3" guy here. Every time someone says "wow you're tall" I say that it's not that great. 6' is plenty to reach high shelves and stuff like that I think, but I struggle with leg room in public transport. I think that's more annoying than needing a ladder once in a while. Also I often feel my hair touching the roof in smaller cars.

[–] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 10 points 7 months ago

I'm a 5'7” guy and I absolutely support this kind of monarchism. God save the king.

[–] Aggravationstation@feddit.uk 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I don't remember women being taller than their partners being that big of a deal, until people making fun of it became a meme on the internet.

The short king thing is just another meme on the internet.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago

5"10 isn't short anyway. I think it's average? "Short king" is trolling 100% of the time. I won't call it gaslighting (a term I do apply to "big dick energy") because it doesn't seek that level of psychological invasiveness. But it's not intended as a compliment. It's trolling. Don't feed the trolls.

[–] KRAW@linux.community 9 points 7 months ago

Personally I do not let internet trends affect my behavior out in the real world. Why is that? Because if I use the term "short king" anywhere in the real world, 99% of people won't know what I'm talking about. Until you hear a real person say it (that means not on lemmy, not on twitter, not on dating apps, etc. or people you meet through these platforms) you can assume that there is no real impact to be had there. I think we give way too much credit to the internet for affecting real life trends. Most people don't care about these cute terminologies people come up with, and neither should you. The term was made to get someone attention, not to make short people feel better.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

If someone were to call me a "short king," I would have their name legally changed to "Cellulite Queen" or "The Right High Honorable Sir Shriveldick Pissinbed III" or some other such.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As someone who is a few inches below average height where I live, I personally wouldn't like being called a "short king". Also, fuck those over 6 foot men for driving up the average height and unintentionally making me have an irrational annoyance because I'm short.

[–] terminhell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 7 months ago

Sorry 😔

It's not all roses up here either. I'm 6'4". Not NBA competitive in height, but well above the average. Finding clothes, shoes etc is a royal pita. Some amusement park rides I can't fit in. Having to duck a lot and having to be generally more aware of the height of doorways and hanging light fixtures. Also having people in stores asking me to grab stuff from upper shelving gets old too.

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I dont have a problem with the phrase but I don't think ive ever heard it unironically or outisde of joking situatuons. Which is right about where the state of body positivity for men ends up.

Pro tip. Never tell people that even if someone is an asshole calling them small dicked is body shaming, unless you want all those people to instantly assume you're telling on yourself and then body shame you for that.

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I wouldn't want to be called by any term partly comprised of 'king'. Just call me short.

Also I keep wanting to read it as shortening and start baking.

[–] FriendBesto@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Who keeps coming up with this bullshit labels? It is like kindergarten.

My advise?

Words only get traction if they are used.

Whether you are short or not, ignore them. Do not use them.

Best way to win at that never ending game is to simply not play.

[–] Feyd@programming.dev 5 points 7 months ago

I loath it and the only thing I would think if someone called me it is that they have an uncomfortable fixation on my height. I think at the very best it is obnoxious.

[–] phorq@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

I'm 5'4" and the term just makes me cringe. I don't normally think about my height unless someone else brings it up or I need to reach the top shelf, but I don't need encouragement in that case... just a ladder.

[–] TheV2@programming.dev 5 points 7 months ago

I know people mean it well and I respect that. But it's a little indirect insult, when their first reaction is to assume that you feel bad about it and to patronize you.

Of course there are people with that mindset among short dating men who often aggressively blame women's standards. So I try to be not too upset about it.

load more comments
view more: next ›