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Neoliberal adaptation (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 6 months ago by db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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If the Twitter/X thing teaches you one thing, let it be this: Twitter was a neoliberal place. Then Elon Musk made it into X, a fascist place. Once again, neoliberalism laid the foundations of fascism. But that’s not the (whole) lesson… Neoliberal folks are still using X, calling it Twitter to make themselves feel better, and pining for the good old days. And there’s the real lesson: When neoliberalism turns into fascism, neoliberals will adapt to life under fascism. Right, class dismissed.

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(We really need a better way to crosspost from mastodon...)

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[-] glimse@lemmy.world 117 points 6 months ago

The conclusion is moot when the premise itself is wrong. Twitter was only "a neoliberal place" if you're only looking at the neoliberal part of it. It's like saying "YouTube is a site about sports highlights" because that's all you watch.

If you used Twitter and only saw neoliberal garbage, that's on you for following neoliberals. It completely ignores the majority of communities.

When I was active on there, if I saw a political tweet it was pro-socialist 95% of the time.

[-] jollyrogue@lemmy.ml 23 points 6 months ago

Aral is promoting the Fediverse.

He’s also saying neoliberals/centrists are largely performative, and they are fine with fascism. It’s a variation of the Nazi bar story.

There were always problems with Twitter’s moderation as it was lighter on the right than the left. The famous comment about not banning Republicans congresspeople comes to mind. It was never as right leaning as Facebook though.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 10 points 6 months ago

There are plenty of ways one can promote the Fediverse without saying things that are factually wrong

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[-] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 16 points 6 months ago

i think youre misunderstanding the point they're trying to make, but then again they're not expressly clear who they're talking about either and "neoliberal" is a term that means different things based on how we've been using it etc etc.

If the Twitter/X thing teaches you one thing, let it be this: Twitter was a neoliberal place. Then Elon Musk made it into X, a fascist place. Once again, neoliberalism laid the foundations of fascism.

I suggest they're referring to the ownership of Twitter, not twitters users here. Twitter was owned by neolibs (they assert) and sold to Elon. They're saying Elon is making X more fascist, not speaking about the userbase.

Neoliberal folks are still using X, calling it Twitter to make themselves feel better, and pining for the good old days.

And there’s the real lesson: When neoliberalism turns into fascism, neoliberals will adapt to life under fascism. Right, class dismissed.

Now he's moved to the userbase, which is confusing and muddles things up a bit. but his point here is the neolibs are the ones who stayed on X even after fascist users started coming in due to a fascist ownership. They complain, but they get by, because (and this may now just be my projecting my own thoughts) neoliberals have 0 morals and 0 insight.

You said you aren't there anymore. I think this means you're exempt.

Anyway that's what i got from it

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

I stopped being active on Twitter long before the sale for unrelated reasons but I've popped on from time to time because I still have friends on there who don't use other platforms.

I take issue with the "everyone who stays is complicit" argument in the same way I have issues with the "everyone in Alabama is a racist magat" because it completely ignores why people actually stay - community and connections.

Unless you can convince your entire circle to switch to a different platform all at once, the move is painful. I get it.

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[-] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The users on it might "do socialism" but the owners, curators, and managers just saw that as a product for them to sell ads next to. The socialism is sort of bait.

Having a show featuring socialists or with socialist themes doesn't make your network socialist.

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

That's a fine take and all but the screenshot in the post is about the users, not the owners.

Using your analogy, the hosts of a socialist show are neoliberals because the network - the only network for over a decade - is neoliberal.

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[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago

Also the OOP's line of logic seems to imply Elon bought Twitter because it was neoliberal?

Elon has billions of dollars he could buy half the lemmy instances if he gave the admins the right check amount.

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[-] Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 6 months ago

Wikipedia says neoliberalism is considered an insult 🤔

[-] Kichae@lemmy.ca 29 points 6 months ago

It says the same thing about TERF. When people find accurate, clinically boring descriptions of themselves offensive, it's not the term that's at fault.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago

I think it's just that people use it as an insult. I think that is the case with many insults. I think retarded started as just a descriptive word.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

Except "neoliberal" is insulting because it's accurate.

It's never changed meaning. People just began to realize that neoliberalism is awful and neoliberals are calling it an insult to be accurately described. Exactly like TERFs.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago

It's not like mentally retarded can't be accurate. But it's the intent and repeated use as an insult that makes an insult and insult. Could just be a neutral descriptor because in itself it doesn't mean something insulting.

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[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago

Well, think of it this way. Have you ever heard anybody call themselves a 'neoliberal?'

[-] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 11 points 6 months ago

There's /r/neoliberal. But don't go there. t'is a silly place

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago

I got permanently banned from Reddit for saying that punching Nazis was a good thing.

Probably the best thing that ever happened to me on the interwebs.

[-] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Damn i feel like a chump comparitively. I still have my old reddit account tho i haven't logged in since i left for here. I want to see if he becomes a shill if i leave him there.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago

I'm still banned but they sent me a stock offering. It's a crazy world

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[-] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 6 months ago

The users of it don't like it when you point it out either. Or they try to say it's embracing the joke, as they usually do nothing but show why it's an insult

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[-] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 8 points 6 months ago

Neoliberal is an accurate descriptor for most liberals, progressive or conservative. The politics they support are similar more than they are different. The strong social safety net libs are social democrats who are either confused or in denial. I can't fault them too much, good political education is basically non-existent in most schools. That still doesn't mend the whole "caving to fascism" thing, social democrats still advocate capitalism. See how Sweden or Finland have been doing lately for a prime example

[-] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 6 months ago

How are social democrats confused?

[-] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago

They're confused about the nature of capitalism and how power structures function for one but I think you misunderstood my initial comment. I was saying that there are a lot of people that self identify as liberal who, if you listen to their rhetoric, would be better described as social democrats. Not that self identified social democrats are confused, but there are a lot of social democrats who seem to think they're liberal

[-] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 5 points 6 months ago

Ah ok, I understand what you mean. Thank you for clarifying. :)

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[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 18 points 6 months ago

People are still calling it Twitter because X is a fucking stupid name.

[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 4 points 6 months ago

Xitter

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[-] Aquilae@hexbear.net 15 points 6 months ago

“The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative.”

- Malcolm X

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[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago

I don't think it really fits, Elon Musk bought the place. If anything the lesson is that money rules the world, ideology is secondary.

[-] anarchist@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago

I wonder if theres an ideology that is more in line with "Money Rules the world " hmmm

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 5 points 6 months ago

I meant that if it had been bought up by someone favouring socialist users and wanted to further that ideology, it would seem a bit strange to me that someone's takeaway would be that neoliberalism laid the foundations for socialism.

It's a website that got bought. If you meant that "money rules the world" is capitalism or neoliberalism then their point becomes a bit muddled, with capitalism laying foundation for capitalism or neoliberalism laying foundation for neoliberalism. What would that even mean?

I don't see any sort of ideological struggle or laying foundations. It was just a purchase. My friend didn't lay the foundations for me to drive to places when I bought his car and used it to drive places hah.

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[-] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

not a meme, please use the sister communities for content like this
(I hate to do this bc I agree with it, but my brain hates twitter posts or just generally walls of text in a meme community)

[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago

Libs love fascism but Twitter could be turned into X and made fascist isn't an argument for that. Maybe on the extremely loose way that private property allows this to happen.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

In today's episode of "you're a fake leftist!!!"

[-] Kaboom@reddthat.com 3 points 6 months ago

Honestly, the left spends more time trying to distance themselves from other leftists than they do helping their cause.

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this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
486 points (88.1% liked)

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