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Let's talk regrets! Specifically where games ended up too complex, too overloaded with gimmicks or too blinged out for your enjoyment (lemmy.world)
submitted 10 months ago by Carighan@lemmy.world to c/boardgames@feddit.de
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I frequently read that people at the time said the plastic minis in Nemesis can detract as much as they can add to the atmosphere, hiding important parts of the board space owing to their sheer size.

TI is often lambasted for taking an entire weekend.

Rosenberg's euro games are the bane of many a player trying to keep all possible actions in their mind.

Modern kickstarters can arrive in shipping crates worth of stuff, making you rent a lorry just to get your 25 minute party game to a meet-up.

What's your biggest regret purchase you can readily recall where a game was just "too much". No matter what specifically it was too much of.

For me personally, my big one was Android: Netrunner. I was excited to jump back into 2-player competitive deckbuilding after I quit Magic The Gathering early in the fourth edition. And it seemed so perfect. No luck involved, known spaces of cards, multiple factions, asymmetry which I nearly always love, it's all perfect!
On paper...
In reality I found out, yes, for me this is a strictly superior MtG. No downsides. Except that I'm no longer 16, and I no longer want to spend forever creating decks, collecting cards even if they're not random, or engage with sifting through hundreds or thousands of cards when working on decks. The exact things that made me excited to play MtG-but-better and brought me to buy Netrunner were the very things turning me away from it now.

Still got to sell it, oddly attached to my first-run box + all expansions now that it's no longer available. But played it like 6 times and that was it. 0 enjoyment. Gave actual MtG a try, even less enjoyment. Tried Keyforge, also even worse. I feel that the entire genre is just a goner for me, and I regret investing so much money into Netrunner. A lot.

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[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I am an old curmudgeonly man who declares all games that end when you reach an arbitrary number of points are bleh. Give me simple rules with simple win conditions, and emergent complexity. Like, if the rules can't fit on one or two pages, I'm checking out something else.

No, I do not want to play Twilight Imperium this weekend. Thx ;)

I make an exception for D&D, or similar, because the presence of a rules arbitrator keeps the game moving.

A secondary rant, related to the above. Any game where you are doing nothing while the other players take their turns in succession, sucks. All games need interrupt rules once there is more than three players. At least with Catan, you're collecting resources, and with enough players you can declare a "special building project" out of turn.

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I LOVE that netrunner is being maintained by a community organization and I love most aspects of netrunner but when I actually tried to play it I bounced off pretty hard.

I think the thing that broke it for me was the fact that you just have to memorize which Icebreakers goes to which Ice (a fracter to break a..code gate?). Every time I would bring this up with players they would just assure me it takes a bit to memorize but I threw multiple of my games just from confusing this. I suggested to the local netrunner group I was trying the game at that the ice and icebreakers should be color coded, or have symbols or at least something on the starter set to help new players and everyone kind of reacted like “yeah I guess but honesty why?” and in that moment I realized netrunner is for a very specific kind of person and I am not it.

Honestly, there are too many good board games to sit there trying to memorize fiddly bits like what icebreakers go to which ice. Yes it is pretty simple but you have to hold that in your head and I can’t do that very well and the fact that the game designers just couldn’t empathize with that or care about it (the likely retort being “if you can’t remember those rules this game is probably too complicated for you”) didn’t make me feel welcome as a player.

I’ll stick with complex board games that give me every tool possible to remember their rules easily.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Frosthaven ended up being really complex. My partner and I got through Gloomhaven just fine. Maybe I forgot how much of a struggle it is in the beginning or it was trying to keep track of everything after an exhausting scenario, but we petered out after a handful of scenarios. Using apps has helped, especially with tracking combat, but we ended up fudging a bunch of stuff so we didn't have to re setup and replay whole scenarios that came down to a single card draw.

Plus organizing everything meant it doesn't fit in just one box. It is a home-only game.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 7 points 10 months ago

Man, I bounced off Gloomhaven hard, which was disappointing because the rest of my friend group really enjoys it. The whole mechanic around burning cards each time you shuffle / when you use powerful ones really turned me off. It's set up like a tactical game, and that makes me want to take my time and approach it strategically, but the time pressure of running out of cards and losing made me feel like I had to rush all the time. After the second or so time we lost a lengthy run due to running out of cards, I was about done with it.

[–] Justas@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

I have no people to play Scythe with :(

[–] RQG@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Some games have so much setup required that it cuts too deep into the game time.

Imo Gloomhaven is only worth playing if you can leave everything on the table in the basement until the next session.

[–] Drummyralf@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This is why I rarely use plastic baggies anymore and give every more complex game a good sorting box for all the stuff. Organizers for screws are great for this. If a player has starting stuff in their own color, I use separate small boxes so you can easily give a player all their stuff.

Also, Gloomhaven without the app is madness to me.

[–] sylver_dragon@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I would put up expansions, in general, as being the bane of my collection. Specifically, I'd pick out the Factions expansion to Alien Frontiers as being a particularly good (bad?) example of this. The base game plays very well and feels well enough balanced. The extra rules, cards and ports added in the expansion just seem to over-complicate the game, and picking the right faction card seems to play heavily into winning.

[–] Skasi@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

I've had a similar experience with expansions, but feel it heavily depends on the game / on the expansion.

On the topic of over-complicating the game, oftentimes expansions expect you to have a good understanding of the base game and its core mechanics. The idea seems to then be "for all those people who loved the base game and played it for a long time, here's a new layer of complexity to keep you entertained for the next couple weeks/months/years". In other words, you'd only buy them if you are already very familiar and want more depth, more content, more mechanics.

However, sometimes expansions seem to significantly alter the core mechanics of a game that you've gotten used to and that you loved. Occasionally that can lead to a loss of mechanics that some players loved. If an expansion destroys the things I loved about a game, then of course I wouldn't like it.

Uh yeah I probably trailed off topic a bit, just wanted to share some thoughts on expansions.

[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Spirit Island. It seems good, but I can't collect enough people who want to sit down and learn it.

I know, there's a solo mode, but I'm not getting all that out when I can play something quick and easy.

I'm sure it's great, just not for my situation.

[–] Skasi@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's such an extremely popular game considering its weight, it's the first game I began writing a list of people who want to play it for. I now know at least 15 people who want to play it and around half of them consider it one of their favourite games. I brought it once to work, played with two colleagues and then one of them thought about buying it. It's surprisingly easy to find people who love it.

If you live in a city try to find some public board game groups or events and poke around a bit, it really shouldn't be too hard to find players for this particular game. I'd say at least 10% of regular boardgamers want to play it. So if you visit some events with 10-30 attendees each then chances are you'll find a handful of people who're interested.

I suggest you play at least 3-4 of the simple spirits at least once then you will have an easier time explaining their powers effects to beginners, should any questions arise. Also, don't play a new spirit yourself. You will need some time to help out people who ask questions during the game so try to play a spirit you're already familiar with, that way you don't get distracted so much while analyzing your own options.

[–] Plavatos@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

My brain melts playing Spirit Island, it's a tough game to min max and I imagine everyone at the table feels the pressure of paying the right card.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 6 points 10 months ago

Nemesis! I have heard how amazingly good the game is, but I have yet to play because by the time I have set up everything i am spent and no longer feel like playing.

[–] RamenDame@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Before I tell you the games I regret let me tell you: I recently got into Netrunner. I am 100% overwhelmed (never really played MtG). But I am so grateful for Jinteki. Through some luck I met a very experienced player who takes my hand and shows me all the things one doesn’t know if they have never played living card games/tcg. I also infected some friends of a friend and we only play online due to distance. I am in my 30s and feel so excited for every game. Maybe go on netrunnerdb take a prebuilt get a couple of runs and get excited by playing. My preach is over, now to you question: Most times I was lucky with my blind buys. Oath, CloudAge etc. Games I don’t really like such as Celestia many of my friends enjoy so I keep them. Games I hated first but initially did not buy like Root and Bora Bora I gave a second try years later. Then I started to enjoy them. Maybe because I got more experience and for Root I embraced the chaos. Now I am a proud owner of all but the Clockwork expansions. It sucks spending money on something you looked forward to. The good thing is you can always revisit, resell and regift.

[–] factory_funnerer@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Final Girl. Seems perfect for me: solo, dice chucker, horror theme. Yes, yes, and hells yes. But after a dozen plays of multiple features, I just didn't connect with it and I really wanted to. Such a disappointing experience.

[–] Plavatos@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

I played Void and Camp and excitedly went out and got Creech and Station one (sorry, can't remember names). Looking forward to trying those two then mix and matching but definitely concerned it'll disappoint as well.

[–] Plavatos@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

I've only played it once but: Frostpunk. It is absolutely gorgeous, thematically well done, but damn it felt like we played wrong because we just failed so hard. I think ultimately I walked away saying, "was that supposed to be fun?" -- and Robinson Crusoe is one of my favorites so I don't mind difficulty.

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Not a purchase, but I once spent hours making a "corrected" Risk board with an updated and complete map of all 190-something countries and their borders. We tried it once, found it tedious to play, and haven't used it since. Making it was kind of fun though, so I'm not sure I have any regrets.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Yeah that still sounds quite fun as a craft project, if I'm honest. Is it really big? As in, if you do another pass over the design would it be a cool world map for your wall?

[–] Clasm@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, if I'm seeing more than say two or three currencies or kinds of bits to keep track of, it's a no for me. I don't care how much I'm in love with the concept.

Mainly because I don't have the available real estate at my place to break out every other War & Peace- worth of board game, but especially if it looks like the setup time is will take longer than playing an actual game.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I only accept something like resource or currency type overload if there's a specific reason the game needs that - Sidereal Confluence would be an example of this.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Shit. I just looked up that game because I'd never heard of it before and realized that it sounds a lot like a concept for a board game that I had come up with and was excited about making. Oh well, I guess I should play it first, but damn, that's disappointing. I almost thought I was creative lol.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Heh, well in that case, congrats on having the idea for a great game, I really enjoy Sidereal Confluence. And sorry you didn't get to make it before someone else did. >.<

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 2 points 10 months ago

Haha true, silver linings. I'm sure they did the concept a lot better, so now I need to buy it and try it out 😂

[–] Cargon@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I was really disappointed with Maglev Metro. One of my favorite games of all time is Bus, and I was hoping for something a bit more modern and the transparent tiles in Maglev Metro were the perfect amount of gimmicky for me.

But after playing it with my board game group, it felt like it was only 75% of a game. There was almost zero player interaction and I was not expecting it to be multiplayer solitaire.

[–] lachlan@mastodon.social 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

@Cargon @Carighan What do you think of cube rails games? Something like Chicago Express, or South African Rails?

[–] Cargon@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I enjoyed Ride the Rails but that's the only game of yours that I've played as far as I can recall. Our group has Age of Steam coming to the table at some point.

I haven't gotten into train games too much, but it seems like a crowded space, with lot's of games trying to recreate / perfect the magic of older games. Sort of like pirate games and Merchants and Marauders.

[–] lachlan@mastodon.social 1 points 10 months ago

@Cargon Age of Steam is fantastic. Really highly recommended. Might have dislodged Brass Birmingham as my favorite game.
Of the cubes, I'd recommend giving at least 2007's Chicago Express a try (also called Wabash Cannonball). It's extremely interactive between players, and I can teach it in about 10 minutes. It's on BGA now, but I know that doesn't work for everybody.
If the interaction is what you're digging, I think you may dig it.

[–] DonSuey@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Some time ago Dark Souls, later Bloodborne, recently Borderlands. I like playing video games, played all of these titles and was very much disappointed playing the board game versions. It's just they cannot reach the completeness and scratch the same itch I got when playing the video games. Most of these titles just carry the name, implement some half hearted mechanic slightly like their video game counter part and call it a day. An example of a better video game-board game I recently played was The Witcher. It's complex, sometimes complicated, but everyone at the table agreed that this game gave a closer example of playing the actual game than the majority of any other video game themed board game. The quest system in particular is of course more shallow than the hour long quests from the video game, but just reading and hearing these tiny stories kicked us back to when we played the video game. That was pretty nice. It felt very nice. Havent seen such a mix of competitive game with so much freedom in what to actual do on the board with such a cool IP like Witcher before and doubt I'll see something with so much care in a while. And back to topic, there where a lot of big kickstarter games I just couldnt get anyone to play with me to the table, e.g. Tainted Grail, Solomone Kane, ... and with board games, I'm really not much of a solo player, it's the getting together what drives me there, so I was stuck with a bunch of nice looking plastic but nothing to do with it. That's one of the main factors buying and selling games nowerdays for me, thinking about if can get folks to sit down and play or not. Bought, never played and sold so many cool looking games I'll probably never experience because of that. One of the bigger titles that comes to mind here was Axis and Allies. I'm still stuck with Root but I like the style of that so much that I wont stop bringing that one up even if we only played it once in about 5(?) years that this is waiting amongst so many other rarely played games. Damn.

[–] dcoe@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Still got to sell it

So you still have it all?

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Yep. 2012 print of the base box, I think all 4 major expansions (I say think because I need to check the cards, I cannot recall whether my ex merged the cards of the Data and Destiny box she bought before she moved out or whether she took that box, got it briefly before moving out), and part of the first cycle.

I really need to make a proper list and get to selling it. It's just collecting dust here, which sucks. Partially of course I am still attached to the concept, but it's not like even an LCG would work for me at this point. Not even Arkham did when I tried. And I used to love CCGs as a teen. 😢

[–] thorbot@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I am lucky if I can organize 2 TI4 games in one year but I love it when it happens. I think Mansions of Madness is the answer for me personally. The app runs like shit and either crashes or audio doesn’t work, then we end up frustrated when the scenario ended up requiring you to pull some hidden lever first and you didn’t do it soon enough and now it’s a hard fail state. I bought all the expansions and have shit tons of content for it and don’t want to play it :(