Ask Lemmy

It's the prime source of despair for me at work, as a custodian. Be it staff, clients, or coworkers - being a lazy selfish piece of shit feels pretty common.

Despair? Not really. Though before COVID, people seemed generally okay, if annoying to be around. Now we just know they're assholes. But I more shrug my shoulders at it as opposed to 'despair' over it.

I keep in mind that observation bias is a thing and I can't remember the people around me who are constantly following it.

Many years ago I was walking out of Port Authority and a women, clearly mentally ill, ran up to me and wacked me in the back. There is zero doubt that I have passed well over 10k people in that area in my life. I only remember 1 of them because of what she did 1 time to me.

Yes. Quite often, sadly. Usually when I'm driving, but also when I see someone blatantly littering in front of a perfectly good trash can or absent-mindedly blocking an aisle at the grocery store.

Integrity is no longer valued in our society because it's an intangible virtue that you can't directly benefit from, so many people toss out that decorum for marginal gains. The reason I throw my trash away in a trash can is because I respect the social contract and I don't want to leave a mess for someone else to have to clean (even if it might be their job to clean it) not because I'm afraid of being judged or confronted by others, which I think is the only thing keeping most people on the right side of the equation these days.

The Shopping Cart Theory is a fantastic way to determine if you are dealing with somebody who doesn't respect the social contract, and indeed, that attitude transcends mere niceties and seeps into their personality - laziness, selfishness, and a general lack of respect for other people's time and property.

I'm visiting Niagara Falls, which is a tourist area obviously, and you can tell who the Americans are because they're happy to shove you out of the way to get a better look. Also, last night, an already loud motorcycle was driving down the road with its music blasting so loud, I thought I was in the Hard Rock Cafe down the street. Of course, American plate.

I'm despair at the lack of regard for the social contract for my own people in specific. I go out of my way to not annoy people.

Yep constantly! perfect example yesterday. Was waiting in line for ice cream. Some young girls ahead of me in line were talking amongst themselves. Worker tries to ask them what they want twice. The girls were completely oblivious to her or seemingly to the fact they were in line. I felt this worker's pain but supported her reaction of rolling her eyes and then quickly proceeding to the next customer.

We obviously all have lapses in awareness but yeah it does sort of feel like it's so common it's endemic and maybe on the rise. Living in a touristy area accounts for some of it but even in the off season it's crazy common here.

I think in the US at least, people increasingly have accepted the notion that it's everyone for themselves, and any sense of "us together" is absent. And when you look at our national values and what sort of policy actually gets discussed and passed, it can be difficult to disagree with that idea. We have millions of Republicans who would do anything for Trump, but won't do the most minor thing to help their fellow citizens for example. We have a government that helps businesses, but won't help regular people.

And this sort of mentality is widespread throughout society. It gives people the idea of "You don't care about me, so why should I care about you?" In a moral vacuum, maybe the effect wouldn't be so pronounced, but in reality, it becomes an engine of apathy which gradually consumes more and more of the social consciousness and destroys the threads which hold that social contract together.

Idk, at least locally i feel like the regard for the social contract has only grown with time, sure there's the odd teenager who doesn't realize headphones exist but they're stupid teenagers and everyone hates them.

I recognize what you're saying. I've accepted it to some degree but I don't like it. I think it also comes down to different views, morals and values. It's easy to look at a person that misbehaves according to your own values and feel disappointed by them. One thing to remember is that they have their own views about what's right and wrong and your own views aren't necessarily the right ones.

It's definitely not a new phenomenon, but exacerbated by the media and COVID-19 just seemed to bring out the very worst in the worst people. Witnessed selfish brats in society my whole life, and I wish I could say it's improved but it hasn't. People forget we live in a society and should work together.

Can't say for sure if there's an increase in this behavior or I'm just getting cranky with old age. Personally, I try to focus on the 999 people NOT being a rude douche

I feel the same way about "acting professional".

It's definitely gotten worse due to the dispersion of our social groups.

It used to be that we would interact with the same people for a large chunk of our lives. The guy you shoulder checked on the path was your dad's coworker etc. The social contract was a lot more reciprocal.

Now, we bounce around the city/country/world, almost on a whim. This breaks alot of the connections that reinforced the social contract.

In scientific terms, the Nash equilibrium has changed. The social contract is close to a classic prisoner dilemma situation. It used to be iterative, and so favour a "tit for tat" response. It is now closer to multiple random individual interactions. This favours "defection" more, since the other person will never get a chance to respond.

When ever I see a traffic light intersection and seeing everyone actually obey the lights, I just think: Wow, such civility, such orderly people patiently waiting for the light to...

BANG The sound of a cars crashing so hard it almost sounded like an explosion.

Me, after being so bewildered at what just happened: Um yea except for that... actually nvm about the civility, maybe I was being too optimistic

I feel like I run into microcosms of this in a few online games.

Worlds like Sea of Thieves, The Division's dark zone, and Stalcraft, are built with the idea that "anything goes" - players exist in the same world, with no rule to prevent them killing each other to steal their possessions - and even some decent rewards for doing so.

I actually mostly enjoy playing those games for all the times people don't do those things. I don't despair the moments that betrayal does end up happening - mostly, I just find it wonderous and satisfying anytime we manage to dismiss that possibility and treat each other peacefully.

This could be a poor effort to correlate my interests, but one thing I think affects this issue in places like America is cars. You don't see 20 people out on the street. You see 20 cars on the street. Tinted windows, faceless metal grill. A lot of people have been burned by one poor experience with neighbors taking sidewalks or transit, and so they want to stay isolated in their own protected cabins.

I think the world really relies on chance interactions between strangers, for both parties to learn something about each other and the world - often leading people to "care more" and develop more of that social contract. The trick is, most people DO follow a social contract, but it might only be for the individuals they're familiar with and that they feel similar to. The internet has unfortunately had its ill effects too - people can choose to stay in spheres where people specifically agree with their worldview, and won't ever run into "randomized neighbors" the same way as they would walking down the street.

I feel we have been taught to ignore the social contract and compete with each other for survival instead by the increasingly capitalist structures among us.

Also, in most countries a smaller proportion of the population is 'bought in'. Home ownership is way down. A lot of days, I kind of passively hope for collapse because the status quo is shitty. So there's little incentive to uphold the social contract for me because there's little hope it will result in a good outcome for me.

And this makes perfect sense and is predicted. As wealth inequality rises, social contract breaks down