this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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[–] echognomics@hexbear.net 89 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Damn those moralists and their checks notes good governance.

The entire game is set in a Moralist-controlled deindustrialised slum area where drug abuse is rampant, and almost everyone lives in abject poverty.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 79 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The creative team are all Estonian leftists/Marxists who lived through the 1990s. It’s clearly what they draw on - the absolute devastation of global capitalism.

No, you don’t understand! That’s the fault of those union thugs!!

[–] TheLastHero@hexbear.net 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

but have you dumb commies considered that the *price stabilitié* is fantastic now? Didn't think so. Maybe if you actually attended an EPIS meeting you'd understand why you can't just fix problems and improve your local living conditions.

(Note: I don't understand either but I am paid to to pretend)

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

Damn those moralists and their checks notes good governance.

The Adults In The Room have Made The Hard Decisions and Got Shit Done hypersus

[–] axont@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago

Also the large building that used to be full of thriving small businesses is destitute and nearly abandoned except the one dice maker lady. You can literally pick through the remains of the failure of capitalism that has left only a husk of itself behind.

And yeah, nearly every NPC in the game is living in poverty, is angry all the time, or has resigned themselves to quietly suffering

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 77 points 1 year ago

The whole setting is cope and seethe by commies about how based globalism is.

You can't talk to a person like this, what can you possibly say to someone who goes "I love bombing a country into perpetual poverty and exploitation where children listen to snuff radio and do drugs, thats so based" except how-compelling

[–] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 73 points 1 year ago (2 children)

These people played a game where every single time they said what they believed in they were mocked for it, and still came away thinking that it was based and neoliberalpilled.

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 60 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They've rationalized it in a "My enemies got mad and lost their temper therefore I am vindicated" kind of way.

The fact that the game mocks their beliefs merely reinforces the enlightened status of those beliefs.

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago

That is a particularly annoying debate brained brainworms . Yes I will get angry at you for saying fascist things even if you say them politely.

norm-respectable moment.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

One of my favorite exchanges in the game is when you can identify yourself as an ultraliberal to Evrart. He simply doesn't entertain the idea. He finds the concept so stupid he just insults you and moves on.

evrart "You're not an ultraliberal Harry. Get the fuck out of here."

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

It is a clownish ideology and deserves to be clowned upon. soypoint-1 evrart soypoint-2

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

He straight up just calls you a slur even, he calls you the R word, pretty sure its the only real world slur they bother with too outside of the flaubert misdirection.

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[–] axont@hexbear.net 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

They keep mentioning how Joyce and Kim are helpful to the player as representatives of liberalism, but Evrart and Measurehead are antagonists as representatives of socialism and fascism. And they're saying the devs accidentally made liberals seem more agreeable this way.

Yeah no shit the liberals are more polite to Harry, he's a cop. Evrart is trying to impede the investigation? No shit, Evrart is organizing a strike and you're some dumbass cop working with a lady who's on the board of directors of the company he's striking against.

And they're saying the devs screwed up by showing communists as murderers or ineffective? That's the point, that building communism is hard, mistakes are made, and Harry's bias as a dumbass alcoholic cop is going to color his perception of the world. I hate these libs so much. I thought liberals were supposed to be media savvy but they completely miss the point

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I thought liberals were supposed to be media savvy but they completely miss the point

They consume media that makes them feel media savvy, especially when Adults In The Room Make The Hard Decisions and Get Shit Done in such media. joyce-messier

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[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is on the devs for making the communism vision quest not mandatory, but the game literally has a character turn to the screen and monologue about how Communism is the only ideology that promises a better world is possible for each and every human being and that struggling for it is worth it even if you fail or are killed.

Meanwhile the fascism quest is all about how cope is destroying your life and ability to relate to other human beings, the moralism side quest has you fuck around with dumb bullshit that doesnt matter and almost gets you kidnapped by the state, and ultraliberalism is memes.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

spoilers just in case

All the political quests are Harry's methods of dealing with pain, with varying degrees of success. They're all cope. However the communist quest is the only one though where he tries dealing with his pain in a productive way, that is, he tries to remain optimistic and tries to at least understand other people. He comes across as goofy and arrogant when he says communist stuff, but that's to be expected.

He's an alcoholic cop who had amnesia and suddenly decided he's the reincarnation of Kras Masov. He's never read theory, never organized. His heart is in the right place but he's a dumbass.

The other quests are unhealthy ways of dealing with pain, especially fascism. Fascist Harry becomes a shell whose life revolves around racial hatred. It's the only quest where Kim will chew you out, beyond a professional capacity. He'll get sick of your shit and will berate you outside the church. Kim is the most patient man on Earth and the fascism quest has you betray even his trust.

The moralism stuff is just Harry trying to live in the memory of his marriage. Ultraliberal I interpreted as trying to ignore everything that's happening, compete dissociation. "This is good, actually" as an ideology.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The whole setting is cope and seethe by commies about how based globalism is.

Imagine reading The Jakarta Method and come away with thinking it’s about how based ~~Sukarno~~ Suharto and the CIA are.

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago

its Suharto, Sukarno was the guy that got couped

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

A fascist is just a liberal who understands how the sausage is made.

[–] Graphite22@hexbear.net 67 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

i like how they think the moralists or ultralibs or w/e faction they think they are is the best choice

the world around the player is in utter decay as a result of said factions

cant make this shit up lmao

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 61 points 1 year ago

the world around the player is in utter decay as a result of said factions

Gestures wildly at the real world and amerikkka

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Someone with some insight might take away something from the fact that their preferred ideologies are both absent and omnipresent from the actual characters of the game.

The prime rep for ultraliberalism is a cynical billionaire whos company has just sent in a fascist death squad to resolve a labor strike, and anyone else who might be described as an "ultraliberal" in the game are literally on the shit tier of society either grifting for scraps or just completely delusional.

And moralisms prime rep is a literal occupying warship, followed by a bureaucrat who bullshits you about the economy while secretly engaging in sexual relationships with someone living in a filthy decaying slum, and finally Kim who deliberately refuses to engage in any serious politics and therefore doesnt really count.

Edit: Just remembered Trant, whos technically listed as a moralist on the wiki I guess but whos also an apolitical coward more than anything, and a crypto-social democrat.

The actual people of Martinaise are neither ultraliberals nor moralists, makes you think huh?

[–] Orannis62@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Someone in that thread was specifically praising the Sunday Friend lmao

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The Kingdom of Conscience will be exactly as it is now. Moralists don't really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded. Centrism isn't change -- not even incremental change. It is control. Over yourself and the world. Exercise it. Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago

Wow cool airships!

wow-cool-robot speech-l

[–] Kynuck97@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago

"See? Moralism is BASED!"

[–] ScrewdriverFactoryFactoryProvider@hexbear.net 57 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Dolores Dei best girl

r/neoliberal praising war criminals. Sounds right.

[–] Krem@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

the mass murders are highly contested by contemporary scholars actually

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[–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

::: spoiler spoilers for disco Elysium These people are really claiming that the moralists are the best, most ethical faction when they're the ones who got martinaise to the point that children are doing drugs in the street, the entire district is incredibly impoverished, the local government completely collapsed so the union had to take over all administration and law enforcement duties, there are drunks and drug addicts everywhere and then sprinkled in with all the misery there's a few incredibly rich people who either don't give a shit about (or aren't even aware of) all the poverty around them all while the moralists still have guns pointed every section of the city and have it under military occupation (and we're actually told that they nuke martinaise two decades after the game ends or so in response to another revolution).

But apparently the communists are bad because the guy who killed a murderous PMC thug was a bitter, angry old man with a sniper rifle.

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[–] Judge_Jury@hexbear.net 56 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Globalism

I'm torn on whether this person has a vibes-based vocabulary or is dogwhistling

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 45 points 1 year ago

I think its just "oh u mad?" type vibes, the bad people talk about globalism therefore globalism is based now.

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

evergreen

Cw:ableist jokes

[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 50 points 1 year ago (5 children)

This is bringing out something that occurred to me the second time I played the game and met Joyce. She really is the liberal of the game.

When you meet Joyce early on, she is, at that stage of the game, one of the most directly helpful NPCs. She talks to you respectfully instead of (rightfully) calling you a pig, she makes jokes with you, she's even willing to discuss reality with you, and some of her most likeable lines come out during that little philosophy talk. She's got an education, and she clearly likes a deep conversation. She even shows that she has a little perspective on her position in the world, and she has some sympathy for the failed revolution and for the conditions that necessitated it. Wow what an intelligent and reasonable mature woman she is!

Try and ask her for money, though?

NOPE

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And also shes a board member of the company that hired a fascist death squad that has literally literally no experience outside of committing gruesome sexual and physical cruelties on colonized peoples, to "deal with" a workers strike.

She's very sneaky about her responsibility and involvement in that stuff, its easy to overlook while she makes jokes about being a great wyrm upon a hoard of the worlds wealth or something, what that actually involves.

[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

Right, it's why introducing her early is so effective. Like most people, Harry wakes into a world order established by people like her, and if you literally only take her and the world at face value, she just seems like a proper lady, when she is actually a key player in the horror of it all

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

while she makes jokes about being a great wyrm upon a hoard of the worlds wealth

Lots of liberals think that by "ironically" embracing what monsters they are that it makes them less monstrous.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

Thesis: Ask her for lots of money porky-scared-flipped

Antithesis: Don't ask her for money porky-happy

Synthesis: Ask her for just enough money to cover repairs to the Whirling In Rags room and a stay for the night tequila-sunset

[–] axont@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

She will give you money if it's a small amount. Although what I got from that exchange is she interprets it as a bribe.

[–] Poogona@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago

Yeah and doing so involves almost turning yourself inside-out, but damn I do enjoy going all caps and saying GIVE ME MONEY NOW

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[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Lmao, in an entirely on brand move, they're completely ignoring

spoilerthe Pale

[–] ScrewdriverFactoryFactoryProvider@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You have no idea how much money it can make you.

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[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The pale is just an externality. The right thing to do is to tax it so that the market can regulate the Time Void That is Slowly Swallowing the World and keep its growth steady.

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[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 43 points 1 year ago (7 children)
[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

Yeah, in the late game you basically need Council Republic because the Investment Pool contributions get artificially nerfed the larger your GDP gets. And nerfed in such a way that the capitalists money just disappears into the void it doesn't recirculate. So you want to have as few capitalists as possible then. Capitalism so good it suffers from it's own success.

The problem with capitalism is that it makes the investment class too rich. This shows that capitalism is actually an extremely good system with no flaws. very-intelligent

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[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

lol that sub continues to be an unwitting self-parody

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[–] SaniFlush@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why would you subject yourself to Reddit

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[–] Cromalin@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Me, listening to the Sunday Friend: "yo this MF spittin"

"The Coalition believes in the importance of informing the public about the benefits of ze price stabilité. Transparency is one of our principles. Would you like an informational pamphlet?"

Me: Ahh yes, price stability.*

(Does not get it at all.)*

it's incredible. they're almost self aware

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[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

>it's r/neoliberal again

don't make me tap the sign

expandr/neoliberal was created by and is astroturfed by a fossil fuel think tank called the Progressive Policy Institute, as part of their "Neoliberal Project"

PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton's "idea mill" aka think tank. Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here. They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil.

it's safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It's basically a Neera Tanden farm.

The creator of r/neoliberal, Colin Mortimer, is the Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI, which seeks to "develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism."

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