Opposite conclusions drawn from Al Jazeera, Channel 4, and Forensic Architecture, from just what I've seen.
An independent investigation must be allowed.
this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
196 points (90.5% liked)
World News
39041 readers
3378 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
There are also scientists who have reviewed the data and are certain that anthropogenic global warming isn't real. How much weight should we give their views?
All OSINT analysis has shown two things:
The damage was NOT caused by Israeli air dropped munition.
The damage was MOST LIKELY caused by an errant rocket landing in the parking lot, having it's propellent burn off, and ignite the fuel in the neabry cars.
My personal view is that Israel is DEFINITELY capable and willing to bomb a hospital if there was a high value target, so I'm not influenced by inability to recognize the war crimes Israel has, is, and will continue to commit. But this isn't one of them.
I also think it's a mistake to continue pretending that it was Israel, because it distracts from very real war crimes they are actively engaging during this conflict, such as collective punishment and bombing civilian buildings and infrastructure, all while Hamas is mostly safe and secure in their tunnel network.
Al Jazeera doesn't contradict it. They say Israel's story is bullshit, but they argue the evidence is consistent with a rocket fired from Gaza being intercepted by the iron dome.
Their analysis agrees that the explosion was caused by a missile fired from within Gaza failing -- they just argue that the reason is interception by Israel's missile defense system, and not an inherent flaw in the rocket.
load more comments
(6 replies)
Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to get this until the fighting stops, and even then Israel and Hamas will probably seek to limit access.
I really hope that one day the truth of so many events can come out. Everything is always framed and media lies.
Is hard to know what's true and what isn't
The news media always engages in a race to be first, never a race to be right.
So when there's some horriffic event, just assume a lot of the first reporting is wrong. It's not done out of outright malice (in MOST cases), it's carelessness.
Or just pay attention to who the news is using as a source. When they write "Hamas says X" and "IDF says Y" they are not reporting wrong, they are just passing along who is saying what. You shouldn't think the news is picking sides u less it is obvious that they are leaving out a ton of context, like how western media is so focused on who fired the missile and not the other thousands of deaths around that one event.
It was one of the islamist groups. Israel doesn't use that kind of missile.
I expect this is the likely answer.
But here’s the daily dose of skepticism warranted by the sheer amount of misinformation- both intentional propaganda and kneejerk reactionaries:
That the IDF might not normally use rockets or similar weapons…. Doesn’t mean they don’t have them (from captured stockpiles, for example,)
If asked, my answer is always going to be prefaced with… the only people who really knows for sure are the guys that launched it; and any one who says with certainty “it was XYZ!” Are probably best given an eyebrow raise.
Which. Does it really matter who did it, at this point? This attack barely moves the needle on civilian deaths caused by the Israeli bombardment… or Hamas or any other armed group.
IMO Any one who is not calling for a cease fire, or at least talks… is not on the right side here- and both the IDF and Hamas are on the wrong side.
Which. Does it really matter who did it, at this point?
Yes, if alone for the insane amount of times Israel was found guilty in titles posting about this on the internet, and Lemmy.
Maybe we could say it does not matter now if it did not matter then. But it seemed to matter a lot.
Apart from that, correcting misinformation for truth is always worth it.
Does it really matter who did it, at this point?
Yes. The truth should matter.
Any one who is not calling for a cease fire
I don't think a ceasefire is going to happen until something happens to the people who started this war.
load more comments
(11 replies)
That was the best explanation I saw, essentially if it had been an Israeli attack it would have been an order of magnitude worse.
The evidence available makes it pretty clear that the hospital was not /targeted/. That makes the incident a tragic accident, not a deliberate overt act -- regardless of who is ultimately responsible.
At the time of this event Israel had bombed 4 other hospitals. That doesn’t prove Israel did this, but it does address the ‘they would never do this’ argument.
Note what this event was actually - a barrage of rockets sent towards regular Israeli cities and towns with the intent of harming civilians. Not military bases, or IDF infrastructure. Add the fact that up to 20% of these missiles land on Gaza's territory, and their casualties are registered as caused by IDF.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(24 replies)
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The AP reached its conclusion by reviewing more than a dozen videos from news broadcasts, security cameras and social media posts, and matching the locations to satellite imagery and photos from before the explosion.
The camera is on a building in Netiv Ha’asara, an Israeli community footsteps from the border wall, and faces southwest, confirming that the rocket launches and explosion were in the direction of Gaza City.
A third video by Israeli news station Channel 12 — taken from a camera on the upper floor of its building in Netivot, a town about 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of the hospital in Gaza City — also captured the barrage of rockets fired at 6:59 p.m.
Israel’s assessment, backed by U.S. intelligence and President Joe Biden, also cited the lack of both a large crater and extensive structural damage that would be consistent with a bomb dropped by Israeli aircraft.
Andrea Richardson, an expert in analyzing open-source intelligence who is a consultant with the Human Rights Center at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, said specific landmarks visible in the videos show where the rockets were launched.
Al-Ahli Arab Hospital’s operators posted on its website that the facility’s cancer center was struck by Israel three days before the deadly blast, leaving a hole in an exterior wall and an unexploded artillery shell next to an ultrasound machine.
The original article contains 2,222 words, the summary contains 229 words. Saved 90%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
view more: next ›