Believe it or not, it is possible to publicly defend Ukraine, be against the long-standing brutality that Israel has dealt to Palestinians, and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history.
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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It seems half decent on tildes
Certainly, being that is possible. Acting on it is harder. Acting on it without being ripped to pieces by at least someone might be impossible.
and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history
Yes you can. And at the same time you can also condemn the illegal territorial anexations of palestinian territory by Israel. I'm part jewish myself and I don't support that crap. Just respect the internationally recognized borders and please, stop committing human rights violations (ON BOTH SIDES)
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And what about palestianians defending themselves form Israeli terror? Or do brown people not get that right?
Or if everything Israel is doing is "defending itself" then maybe we should let Russia "defend itself" against Ukrainian terror?
It's a stupid article that didn't deserve reposting.
Zelensky is obviously going to take Israel's side, since Israel might actually provide Ukraine with weapons, aid, or intelligence, whereas Hamas will provide Ukraine with nothing and is aligned with Iran who are actively supplying Russia with the drones that are murdering them.
But yeah, from an analagous standpoint, Israel would be Russia who has illegally occupied the land of Palestine, and this is roughly the equivalent of Ukraine striking back at Russia in Russia's territory, though there certainly seem like far far more civilian casualties than in any of Ukraine's operations, at the same time Palestinians are also far more desperate and have face decades and decades of oppression, conditions likely to foster extremism.
Also ukraine has high tech guided munitions and drones. Hamas has incredibly low tech and Inaccurate rockets.
Immaculate?
Their rockets were born without the first sin.
Damn is that why ours keep killing kids?
It's why ours do it without remorse. :-(
*inaccurate.
Side note: how do we live in a world with ChatGPT but still have such awful autocorrect?
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I think you meant to say inaccurate. Immaculate is when you set someone free, particularly of social or legal restrictions.
There's another way to spin the analogy, and I believe that's closer to what Zelensky had in mind.
Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets. Both recently advanced in a military invasion into the sovereign territory of Ukraine / Israel. Both kidnapped and murdered citizencs. So the analogy is Russia / Hamas vs Ukraine / Israel.
I think it's a bit weird Zelensky would ally with a country which behaves like Russia from his point of view. I agree he probably might still do it, since he needs the weapons. But given this incentive, I think the alternative analogy becomes far more appealing and convincing.
Eh, that alternative analogy is a worse one though, since it falls apart the minute you look at Israel's past indiscriminate killing of civilians and current unilateral and internationally condemned occupation of Palestinian territory.
Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets
Thats disingenuous. While im sure Hamas would have 0 problem with targeting civilians if they could, the reality is their rockers are far too primitive to target much of anything.
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gunning civilians down during a music festival is "defending themselves" now? God I'm sick of people outright defending literal monsters. IDF and Hamas are both evil organisations. the people being killed on both sides are not. I cannot understand how anyone can sit here and justify killing civilians on any side for any reason.
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Tbf to him, there's a significant difference between taking their own land back between Ukraine and Palestine
When Ukraine fighting back against illegal occupation they didn't purposely target the civilian while Russian is the indiscriminate one.
Hamas's goal is to take their land back while also trying to wipe Jew off the map. Them parading a woman's naked dead body tells it all, they're as savage as the Israeli that treat Palestinian as sub-human. All far right Muslim across the globe hate Jew because of what Israel does for decades.
If tomorrow Putin suddenly gave back all occupied territories including Crimea, Ukraine will stop. If tomorrow Netanyahu gave back all occupied territories, Hamas will not stop until Israel did not exists.
So yeah, for Ukraine vs Russia, one side is the terrorist. For Palestine vs Israel though, both side is terrorist.
Fun fact about that Zionist army in 1948, it was made up of literal terrorist organizations, one of which (the Lehi) wanted to fight alongside the Nazis during WW2 because they hated the British so much.
Hitler said no to their offer of support. But the offer apparently reached his desk. Well, offers. They tried multiple times in 1940 and 1941.
The sort of mind that it took to want to join with the Nazis after Kristallnacht...
One of the Lehi's main activities during the build up to the 1948 war, was to assassinate Jews who they viewed as "traitors" i.e. Jews who cooperated with or were friendly with either the British, or Arabs (Palestinians). Add in a few bombings and the odd mass rape/massacre, and you have one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations of the mid-century.
Anyway, in 1980, all the surviving Lehi members got medals of honor from the Israeli government."for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel"
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Personally, it's hard to agree with either side when there are very clearly religious motivators. Both sides have done things that are clearly wrong. It's not about people vs state, or people vs foreign state, it's always framed as Jewish vs Muslim. It's hard to imagine a future where each side does not stop until the other is wiped out. It's hard for people of different religions to live in harmony when the state is so intertwined with religion. Israel gets a lot of international support because at least they have a relatively stable government.
It's also hard to imagine people will live in harmony when one side literally enforces an apartheid regime on the other side.
Agreed, but again, both sides are not innocent here.
The civilians in both sides are not equal imo.
On the Palestinians side, the Hamas isn't an elected group. It's an independent terrorist group. People that don't get recruited, and people that don't harbor them willingly are innocent.
On the Israelites side, anyone that voted for the governments that commit those atrocities are slightly more guilty in my eyes.
They seized control later on, but Hamas was elected in 2006. Still though, of course there's plenty of Palestinians who don't support Hamas
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If nothing else, Zelensky knows he has to toe the American policy line. I don't blame him, really. It's self-protection.
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I mean he does need those israeli anti missile shields so I get where he's coming from. But this is straight up hilarious. Israel is occupying Palestinian terriroties ilegally just like Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Of course it does, just like any other nation. In this case, the extreme islamists don't care about geopolitical resources like land or oil. They care about exterminating Jews. Plain and simple. If Hamas had free reign, they would execute every last person on planet earth, including you, unless you converted to Islam. It's in their ideology--dying in a holy war against non-muslims is the ticket to eternal life. That's literally what they believe. And because of that, they sew chaos and terror wherever they go.
Clearly the large majority of muslims do not believe this way. But the extremists do, and that's how history is made. The peaceful, normal civilians who'd rather just live their lives, aren't the decision makers. And of course this all traces back to a long series of stupid decisions and badly drawn maps after the world wars. But make no mistake, Hamas is no different than Nazi Germany in their desire to exterminate Jews, and eventually they will need to be dealt with in exactly the same way.
Exactly. No issues with moderates, but moderates aren't the ones suicide-bombing and throwing suspected gays off the top of buildings. An Islamic society creates safe spaces for the extremists, and the extremists will do whatever they can to take power.
Other Muslims are the ones targeted most by Islamist extremists. It's in the Muslims' best interest that they be kept a minority and out of power. There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women's rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.
Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.
There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women’s rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.
Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.
The last sentence hints both might have a common cause whis is not "being Muslim". I think it might be "being extremist". The opposite would be a pluralist society, which embraces diversity and encourages respectful coexistence and exchange.
This then also includes the rise of right-wing populists in democracies all over the world, with exactly the same consequences as you said.
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