this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2025
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Last night, I watched Chinese Cooking Demystified's most recent video where they trace the history of mapo tofu to the best of their abilities. It was a fascinating watch where they had a particular recipe incarnation that defied their old definition of proper mapo tofu. At the end of the video they note how it's transformed over the years noting that there's an obsession these days for an authentic way of preparing dishes often using this point as a reason to criticize a dish. They aren't against criticizing a dish, but call for specific ciriticisms such as flavor balance or shape which is important in Chinese cuisine.

So I went looking though some critiques looking for something about how cream makes it too heavy or hides the flavor of this ingredient or that. What I found was something more exciting. This academic did a quick historical gloss of carbonara and found that several iterations of early carbonara included cream and other taboo ingredients like butter. It wasn't standardized into its canonical form until the 1990s.

Growing up in a traditional household, my parents never worked from recipes, but regularly made delicious dishes beloved by their friends and family members alike. Technique, ingredients, and interests ruled the day. Knowing how to bring out the flavors of the ingredients you had on hand to match each other made delicious food. And the lanes for dishes were much wider because the ingredient lists weren't as rigid. Obviously, a biriyani without rice be confusing if you dared serve it. But do you need kokum or can you use lemon juice? Is a carbonara still a carbonara with cream, with bacon instead of guancole, vegetarian? I don't know. Maybe I care less about the words coming out of my mouth than the food going in it.

[–] But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Nothing I hate more than food snobs, put whatever you want in your food

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] StThicket@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago

That sounds fucking delicious.

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[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Italians demand our respect for their culinary traditions when Carbonara is literally a ~~19th~~ 20th century invention. Ridiculous! Next time I'm having pasta, I'm putting ketchup on it to intentionally dishonor them

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

20th, not 19th. The first mention of the dish by that name is from just after WWII.

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Good catch, I tend to get those mixed up. Will fix

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

No worries, 's all good. :)

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Give it some fancy name and call it a new dish.

Something like "Maccaronara al Heinzorino"

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[–] inconel@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

I'd eat that honestly

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Fuck the original recipe. I've never had better Alfredo or Carbonara than cooking the sauce myself using garlic, heavy cream, parmesan, and a bit of cornstarch slurry to help keep it from breaking.

Either that or we can give the cream version a different name and acknowledge it as a better dish than traditional Alfredo.

[–] udon@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

At least he didn't suggest that health insurance should use a deny, delay, and defend strategy for insurance claim payments

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago

Huh. It's never occurred to me to put cream in carbonara, always just thinking of it as the bacon and eggs pasta, don't think I'd like it literally creamy; but I will put a pat of butter in cacio e pepe, to help it emulsify, and was just reading about how that is some sort of heresy too.

[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 66 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)
[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For me its the "different recipe, nothing to do with macaroni cheese".

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago

Important to point out that he isn't saying that she is wrong for doing that, it's just a different recipe, don't call it British Mac&cheese!

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

That's how I make it.

/has no Italian friends

[–] Dagnet@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Call me a sinner but I love cream in my carbonara. Im ok with it having another name tho, that way people wouldnt get angry

[–] Makhno@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Only jackass' high on their own farts gets pissed about someone else adding variation to a dish

[–] hOrni@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Same goes with pineapple on pizza.

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

No, cream on Hawaiian pizza is terrible.

[–] hOrni@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Idk. Usually when I order pizza I swap tomato sauce for white sauce. But I don't remember if I did it with a Hawaiian pizza. I'll have to try and let you know.

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[–] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] SGG@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Who is Ara and why are you creaming her?

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[–] logi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

The people of Cremona are eying you suspiciously.

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[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean, that's just alfredo with bacon at that point.

[–] spongeborgcubepants@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Original Alfredo also does not have cream. It's butter and parmigiano

[–] Rinox@feddit.it 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Original Alfredo is pretty much an American invention. There is a restaurant in Rome that makes "pasta al burro e parmigiano" but that's pretty much it. Americans took the dish, put cream and shit in it and gave it that name. They can keep it imo.

In Italy pasta Alfredo is more of a meme than anything else, and "pasta al burro" is made pretty much only when you are sick.

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't add cream, but I make 'alfredo' as a milk sauce from butter, flour, lots of parm, and milk.

But I also add milk to my espresso, even if I do use an Italian Moka pot. They have a warrent for my arrest as we speak, lol.

[–] Rinox@feddit.it 1 points 1 day ago

So you just make pasta with bechamel and parmigiano and drink caffè macchiato. You're fine, really.

Aside from the fact that, imo, there are better sauces for your pasta, you are not doing anything egregious, plus you can call Alfredo whatever you want. Nobody knows what it means anyway.

PS: coffee made with a moka pot in Italy is just called coffee. Espresso is made with an espresso machine that works at high pressure.

[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i first read this comic as saying “ice cream in carbonara” and thought the injuries were justified. but after rereading it i’m not so sure anymore

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Cream or better crème fraîche makes a very good sauce when you melt it onto the carbonara IMO.

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