this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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[–] IHeartBadCode@fedia.io 198 points 1 week ago (81 children)

I just don't get how people are looking at Harris' stance as being pro-genocide. Biden is the President and historically, foreign policy during the tenure of the President by the Vice President doesn't veer too far off from the President. That said, Harris has absolutely called for investigation into the suffering of civilians in the conflict.

Congress sets the budgetary amount of aid to direct to Israel and the President distributes the money via their diplomatic channels. There are very few options for the President to just suspend funding, which Biden has done twice for weapons under the rules established within 10 USC § 362 (a)(1)

Of the amounts made available to the Department of Defense, none may be used for any training, equipment, or other assistance for a unit of a foreign security force if the Secretary of Defense has credible information that the unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.

But outside that, there's very little the President can do once Congress approves funding and that funding has been signed into law. This is why an independent channel investigation is required and is exactly what Harris has called for. This would allow the the US Government to establish their own inquiry into the human abuses. This would give the required evidence to cancel funding under Title XII authority. But none of that can happen overnight. It's not an easy path to override the will of Congress.

On the opposite side, Trump has indicated that he will absolutely turn a blind eye to the whole thing and allow Israel to determine solely the "best" course of action for their current conflict. Trump has literally stated in his rallies:

From the start, Harris has worked to tie Israel's hand behind its back, demanding an immediate cease-fire, always demanding cease-fire

Trump would not see a cease-fire as a required condition for the on-going conflict.

Harris and Democrats historically have called for a two-state solution. Trump's plan which has been broadly adopted by the Republican party in general would:

  • Give Palestinians only about 15% of their original territory
  • Jerusalem would become Israel's undivided capitol, meaning all claims by the Palestinians to the eastern half of the city would be tossed out.
  • Allow Palestinians to "achieve an independent state" via a means that is not clearly defined in the plan but indicated that Israel would have a final say in that process.
  • "No Palestinians or Israelis will be uprooted from their homes" indicating that the territory that Israel has already colonized from their current conflict would become Israel's.
  • Would put Israel and Jordan on equal footing for the administration of al-Haram al-Sharif, which will absolutely ignite a conflict.
  • Any territory allocated to Palestinians would have to undergo a four year "wait" period, but there's no protections from Israel obtaining that territory if done so during conflict. So Israel could provoke someone to fight them and that would give them justification to take the land during this "four year wait period".

Trump has all but given up completely on a two-state solution. Which means, he's for a one state solution. And people are fooling themselves if they believe that Trump would seek a "peaceful" one state solution. He has told Netanyahu directly, "Just get it done quickly". Now we can play a game as what manner is used to "get it done quickly" means, but only idiots are the one's thinking that doesn't give a tacit nod to ethic cleansing.

I just have no idea what these people who think Harris is a bad idea for Palestinians are actually thinking. And really, I don't think they are thinking at all. You have one solution that is long, stupid, and required because we are a nation of laws. And you have the other solution that is "fuck it, firebomb them all and call it done". It is difficult to imagine that there are truly people this blind and ignorant to this reality. But yet, here we are.

The notion that we might get a 3rd party into office like twenty years from now if we start today, helps nobody if the people we're trying to help are all eradicated over the next four years. Going down this "third road" only ensures an outcome where we are fifteen years too late to help.

[–] Artyom@lemm.ee 54 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

It makes no sense, but have you considered the possibility that most people pushing that narrative are Russian assets trying to get Trump elected?

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[–] BrioxorMorbide@lemm.ee 32 points 1 week ago (33 children)

I just have no idea what these people who think Harris is a bad idea for Palestinians are actually thinking. And really, I don’t think they are thinking at all.

They live in cloud cuckoo land where Biden/Harris can just tell Netanyahu "Fuck off and shove a grenade up your arse, you genocidal maniac" and that would actually work.

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 144 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (105 children)

im convinced at this point that the "don't vote or you support genocide" thing is a russian troll campaign

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[–] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 91 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hey look, Bernie right on it. Again.

[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 54 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You think he ever gets tired of being right all the time?

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 34 points 1 week ago

He probably gets tired of so many others being more popular and more incorrect.

We need a whole senate of inter generational Bernies.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 85 points 1 week ago (144 children)

Single-issue voters are ignorant to begin with, but failing to help stop another Trump presidency isn't the moral high ground. If you're in that group there's no point polishing your halo, because you are shitting on it.

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[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 75 points 1 week ago (75 children)

I knew all these single issue fake leftists were full of shit when it was revealed that Trump has been sabotaging peace talks and they weren't immediately outraged by that revelation.

Nah, they all have a political objective, and it doesn't involve peace in the middle east. Their objective is to use genocide as a political wedge to divide the left and get Trump elected.

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[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 68 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Where where these people of moral conscience when Bernie had a shot?

it's not like this shitshow sprung up overnight.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 39 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They voted for Hillary, because the party decided it was her turn and made everyone else drop out and endorse her.

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[–] ZMoney@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (34 children)

The idea that not voting is some form of protest that has material consequences for the ruling class is ahistorical. It took centuries of struggle to attain universal suffrage. The people in power are perfectly happy to have only a small fraction of the demos exerting any political power at all; in fact this is how most civilizations have functioned for the past few thousand years.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

I just need anyone who thinks about skipping voting to "Save Palestine" to refer to this graph

Btw, there's a third choice.. it's pulling the Jill Stein lever.

The Jill Stein Lever is made of rubber and not actually connected to anything, so pulling it will accomplish two things "Jack" and "Shit"

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago

So there's no flag of Armenia, but there are flags of Ukraine and Palestine.

April 2016 clashes happened, when Democrats were in power. Autumn 2020 war - when Republicans were in power. September 2022 and September 2023 - when Democrats were in power. Of these it's 1:1 for election years, and 2:0 against Democrats otherwise.

(All the "Russian ally" types - keep walking, as if there were competing offers, and Palestine is not in any way NATO-aligned either.)

Glad ANCA took the position of endorsing any party only after it does something real on Armenian issues. Should have done that 20 years ago.

(All the "don't care what happens to Armenia, that doesn't affect me" types - keep walking.)

This is one issue, but all others are similar in reality.

Instead of making progress, you have to vote for Harris to avoid regress, and that's 4 more years. Right now Democrats are in power, what will they do differently after the election? Trump is a very convenient opponent, even his voters hate him, they just hate some other groups more.

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