this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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[–] GVAGUY3@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Tolkien also had letters that basically say the Orcs aren't naturally evil or something in that manner. Unfortunately, he never got around to implementing that in his work.

[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago

I think most people with their own setting(s) revisit them and give and take about what stuff "really means" or whatever. I think I remember reading somewhere that he didn't like the "mass-production elves brutalised into Sauron's tools" origin story for orcs later on, but that one has been popular regardless.

idk, it's fun to explore narrative ideas without committing to any one. Elves and Orcs don't exist and people can hold on to the ones they vibe with after you've changed your mind

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 26 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Also Southern and Eastern peoples sided with Sauron, because Numenoreans did so much slavery and genocide to their ancestors that they always fought against Numenoreans and their descendants.

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Numenoreans are the ancestors of Aragorn and the Kingdom of Gondor, by the way, for those who don't know.

They were not always on the right side of history to put it lightly.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And if I'm correct, didn't Eru Iluvatar xi-plz them?

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They set foot on the shores of the land the elves sail to, Sauron told them to go there for immortality. The ruling king and his armies got trapped in rock and the earth stopped being flat bc Eru Iluvatar got so mad.

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

and ~~atlantis~~ Numenor also got sunk

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Its possible as well that Sauron had some leaders in the south and easy in his pocket. The only named Nazgul was a Numenorean who had colonized part of the south

[–] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I thought Khamûl was the only named Nazgul and he was kicking around in The East/Rhûn?

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago

Sorry, I was thinking he was in the south not the east. Still works, just fill in a different cardinal direction

[–] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago

They always did have this air of elitism.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago

Of all the people aside from uncle Ted, I would have assumed that Tolkien the arch philologist would have gotten the eat your cake/have it too phrasing the right way round. Apparently not.

[–] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago

Hun, so I guess the post-Tolkien thing where elves are frequently portrayed as aloof, snooty weirdos was actually intentional.