Ask Lemmy

Not as bad as it was pre-covid, but yes, this is still definitely a fucking thing...

I appear to be immune to it, I'm retired military and went looking for work more as something to do than something to pay bills, and literally nobody gives me shit about anything, I have a very obvious no-fucks dispositon. I see how they treat coworkers though and seriously wonder how the fuck the state of what people believe individual liberty should be has gotten this fucked.

I literally watched someone hand over their cell phone to a manager so they could go through their Facebook messages a couple days ago... That manager has never even asked for my phone number, and I'm 100% certain she wouldn't ask for my phone. She just pushes certain people because she knows she can.

If you are employed by a fertilizer company to process manure and compost, taking shit from your employer is embezzlement.

Sounds like your background is very different to others. Most people have their entire lives tied to their job, through no push of their own. Especially in the US where your very healthcare and family healthcare plans rely solely on keeping your job. Not to mention food in their mouths, education, car and you might even have a house to lose whether mortgage or just rent. Leaving your family homeless, especially when so many are already just making it week to week, month to month, without any opening for rest.

Don't get it mixed up, people don't stay in shitty situations because they enjoy it. And corporations has put lots of lobbying around ensuring you are dependent on them so that they have the power.

Why do you think they freak out of unions or free health care or anything that gives power back to the employee.

Problem is that each person defines what "taking shit" is, for them personally, differently. To draw an extreme, if you're being physically assaulted, anyone would call that bullshit. But what about criticism, which some people handle better than others, and is an important part of developing skills?

So, it really is going to vary quite a bit from individual to individual, and situation to situation. Depending as much on the receiver as the shit-giver.

That said, yes, I do think workers tend to give up a bit too much of their own power these days, just in general. Unions help with that.

Unionize. Get union jobs. This helps with stopping what you’re talking about.

I have been homeless and I have been well-paid while taking shit from my employer. Taking shit while well paid was way harder on my mental and physical health. Homelessness was uncomfortable and scary, but taking shit while being highly paid degraded me, made me weaker, made me less happy, made me slowly but steadily think less of myself.

In my field I see lots of people taking shit for no good reason. Of course there are those with little choice, but many could just easily tell their boss to go fuck himself and still.. they rather eat shit.

Everyone’s circumstances are different. Finding a new job is a huge opportunity cost, typically requiring large amounts of time and money as the search gets extended.

I make healthcare related calls on the clock, because I am forced to get healthcare through my employer, so to me, it is a work related matter.

I like my boss though, he gets it.

In a lot of cities there just aren't any opportunities. All the businesses have banded to together to abuse employees. So you can suck it up, or you can be a really proud homeless person.

You should leave if you feel that your job is making you miserable. Start interviewing on the down low, and leave once you have something lined up.

There is no point in trying to stay at a place you hate because you are guilty about that your work is going to be piled on to your coworker. They made their choice to stay, you've done your best to help them, but you should put your own well being first and foremost.

I think this is a very American thing. Employers have a lot of leverage over employees because the employees rely on employers for healthcare insurance and there's no real safety net if they get laid off.

In other developed countries, employees will have access to universal healthcare and you have generous unemployment benefits for a much longer time (often up to 90 percent of your previous salary for a year or two or until you find another job (you have to prove your active job search)).

This all creates more balance between employer and employee.

Not in itself, no. Some people conflate "not taking shit" with being rude, stubborn and domineering, though, and that's not good in the workplace or elsewhere. For all my ranting about everything being political, I think this one is just down to worker's rights and culture - if the company is god and can never be questioned, but can fire you at a whim, most people are just not going to stick their neck out. With healthier work culture and rights, there's less shit going around in the first place, and it's easier to get out of a toxic "relationship".

I’ve recently exposed what I think constitutes criminal negligence at my company for safe handling of various chemicals. Pretty sure I’m getting fired on Tuesday.

AMA?

If you're worth your words.

If you bag groceries, no one is going to give much of a shit whether you stay or go. On the upside, you probably won't care much either as most employers in 2023 are as replaceable as their employees.

Keep that in mind and you'll never get burnt, so long as you live somewhere with a varied enough employment scene for you to bounce around. If they're as replaceable as you, it's good peace of mind.

Some people definitely aren't in a position to fight back. If you're living paycheck to paycheck and barely getting by, your employer might know that you can't afford to be out of a job for any length of time. Then, they might abuse you because what are you going to do? Fight back, get fired, and then become homeless? Nope. You'll take whatever your employer dishes out on you.

Other people are in a position to fight back. I'm lucky enough to be one of those people. I watched my father waste his life doing extra work that he didn't get paid for. He'd go in early, bring stuff home to work on late into the night, and bring extra work home for the weekends. It's not like he was paid extra. He was salaried and was paid the same if he worked 40 hours or 80 hours.

In the end, he was fired when he was close to 60 - too early to retire, but too old to find a new job because he would likely retire soon. So he retired before he was ready and now lives on a very limited income.

When I got my current job, I was asked to check a generic "info@" email inbox. No problem. I routed the emails to people who could address them. My boss called me in one day to tell me that he expected me to check this inbox at night and over the weekends too.

Now, I'm Jewish and observe the Sabbath. My boss said "I can't tell you to violate your religious beliefs, but I REALLY need you to check this every few hours every day!" I told him that I wasn't going to check it on nights or weekends. He insisted I needed to because someone might email with a medical emergency. (Without getting into my employer, it was plausible that someone would email us about medical stuff in general.) I told him that if someone was having a medical emergency and, instead of dialing 911, they emailed our "info@" mailbox, they deserved to have their emergency wait until Monday morning. In all the time i monitored the inbox, I only got one email that was even slightly an emergency (and even then, it was more of a safety concern than an actual emergency).

Being able to walk out on the spot is a great thing. But most people will have to do some advance planning for that. Find a new job and then find a good opportunity to walk out on the spot.

In the US, the lack of statutory notice makes this particularly satisfying. In the UK (and everywhere else with statutory notice) I recommend saving up some paid holiday so you don't have to work much of your notice period. Not that you need to get much work done during it anyway.

Bad managers deserve to be left in the lurch as much as humanly possible. Make sure you plant the idea in the heads of all your co-workers.

harassed or bullied, to stand up to that behavior and tell them that you’re not going to take their shit, and if they continue you fucking quit and never look back.

In the USA, workplace harassment and bullying are generally illegal. The employer is obligated to do something about it. If they don't, then don't quit: sue.

I live in an "At Will" State in the US, which means I can be fired at any time. Depending on what is going on, or how the company works (like if HR sucks), I'd rather not fight back hard.

I was stuck with an absolute horrible supervisor in my last job, and it took me 1.5 years of applying to jobs to finally get out of there. It isn't easy to just get a job.

I can't imagine not having a job for 1.5 years and paying $1500/mo for my 1 bedroom and then also other bills such as utilities + car stuff + food + etc.

There can be a strategic long term play when it is valuable for you to "take shit" from an employer.

A perfect example is if you are trying to move up in a career, and your industry requires experience and a specific level of title before you'd be considered by employers you'd prefer to work for. If you don't have that experience and title, you simple won't even be considered by the employers you like. However, if there is a shitty employer that will give you the job and title (because they can't keep staff because they're shitty and have high turnover), then it may be worth it to "take shit" from the shitty employer for a year or so to gain the experience and ability to put that position on your resume to make yourself eligible for the good employers you like. Another good reason to work for one of these "taking shit" employers when you're moving up is you can make your mistakes here. Make your mistakes in your new position at a place you hate, so when you go to the place that treats you well, you perform much better because of your knowledge and experience.

Also, I've worked for some shitty employers because they pay significantly more than good employers (again because they have to because otherwise they can't keep staff). This should only be used as a short term play because that toxicity can damage you long term. You don't want to be a lifer at one of these places, but if you have a goal that requires more money, then working for one of these and "taking shit" from them may be worth it to achieve your personal long term goals.

If you're career driven, "taking shit" strategically can be valuable. Your co-workers who refuse to "take any shit" will likely continue to have their jobs, but they'll see themselves passed over for promotions and raises. They'll watch as you continue to rise in the organization, and see when you've learned what you needed and jumped ship to another employer that treats them well where they don't have to "take shit". They'll chalk up their lack of advancement to being unfairly passed over, while you are two to three promotions above them, making more money, having better/more interesting work, and "taking less shit" than them.

I used to be one of these people that just eat shit all day at a toxic workplace cause I thought "oh Im the new guy I have to prove my worth and work hard to get to a point of respect and earning more money" and at every job I'd do as much as I could til I'm burnt out and still being paid shot and treated like garbage. Even moreso than in the beginning because they got used to how much extra shit I'd do for them for the same pay. This happened at multiple jobs through multiple years of my life and I'd always get to a point where I'd quit or stop doing extra and get fired cause I burnt out doing everything I could with no return. After the last real job I had I quit and never looked back and I realized now that it was never my fault for not putting enough effort in or being lazy or whatever the case may be. Every time I quit it was gonna be because I would have had a mental breakdown if I stayed and my family always gave me shit cause I'd never have money saved up. It's scary AF sometimes and not everyone can get away with being in a position where you can leave a toxic workplace just like that and survive. I do think more people should be able to at least stand up to their employers and get what they deserve though. If they can't quit that's the next best thing. Or better yet get together with fellow employees and start a union. I'm freelance now since that last job and I have been in a couple terrible work droughts but I have been trying as hard as I possibly can to make it work and never have to work for someone ever again.

Fortunately, here in Germany we have very strong employee laws and regulations. Employers can do much less shit to employees than in the USA for example.

Boss yells at you? Sue them. Boss fires you for no real reason? Sue them. Boss verbally attacks you? Sue them. Boss does not pay you on time? Sue them. Boss makes you do useless nonsense work? Sue them. Boss demands you to do overtime without compensation? Sue them.

You'll always win AND you will keep your job and get compensation.

It depends. You have to make a benefit-risk-downside analysis, such as whether the job pays well, what your other prospects are pay-wise, if another job might have a better or worse working environment in terms of supervisors and colleagues, how convenient the job is (work from home? commute across town?) and how switching jobs will look on your resume, as in, have you been there only 6 months? 3 years? 6 years?

There's a reason the term "wage slave" exists.

As long as people need to work for someone else in order to eat, this sort of exploitative power inbalance will exist.

If you mean making someone you work with have a less pleasant existence then yes I would say it is a bad thing. For example the trash has to be taken out every night and you decide that you don't have to do it so now your coworkers suffer.

If you mean standing up for yourself then no but it does have consequences and you have to decide for yourself the pros and cons.

Does this mean being able to deal with hard time and coarse personalities, or being treated truly terribly?

I don't "take shit" from an employer by interviewing for a new job.

If they are rude to me I smile, nod, complete the task, and then go open LinkedIn and start talking to recruiters.

Can be, depending on how you actually act. A lot of people "who take no shit" are just assholes looking for reasons to be assholes.