As a European I'll never cease to find it mind blowing that it is normal for a Americans that the cost to them of damn near everything is more than the cost initially shown to them.
this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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You’re completely right to feel that way. As an American, it’s mind blowing to me, too. I really don’t like the fact that “hidden fees” have become normal.
Traveling in the US it can often feel like everyone wants to scam you or take advantage of you if you don’t pay attention.
Heck, even store prices and restaurant prices aren’t the real price.
Store prices are without sales tax/VAT, and restaurants wants you to tip 20% so they can keep not paying their “employees”.
The tax drives me crazy. The excuse for not displaying the total price after tax is because it's different for each state. ...yet the cash register seems to be able to handle that perfectly fine. So it can't that hard to figure it out.
Edit: after a quick look into it, the main problem is tax in a lot of places is based on the Total amount sold, not on each item. So that could definitely be impossible to display before hand.
after a quick look into it, the main problem is tax in a lot of places is based on the Total amount sold, not on each item.
I'm actually confused, aren't taxes a percentage? The sum of a percentage of all items should be the same as a percentage of the sum, no? Or is my brain not do math good? Can someone smarter than me explain?
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I'm not aware of anywhere in the US where the tax is variable depending on total amount sold. Sometimes some things are excluded from sales tax. But that's per-item and not variable.
In the vast majority of the US there's no reason they can't just display the price with tax.
Granted, prices on consumer items are so fucking out of control retailers and etc just charge whatever the fuck they want and people are expected to pay it. They're gouging at 80%, 100%, 150% markups on food, clothing, services, etc versus 2 years ago and people seem to just accept it (tough not to when everyone is doing it)
Initially they got away with it because "COVID supply problems", which was frequently a lie or exaggeration. Now there's no excuse given typically; people quote "inflation" but that's a tiny fraction of it. It's just gouging companies have learned they can keep getting away with more and more.
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That's still my favorite EU legislation. The price that is displayed must be equal (or higher, discounts are still allowed) to the price that you pay. Taxes, tips, fees, everything must be included in the price.
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Some things we have to buy without know the cost, hospital/doctor fees, insurance can surprise you, etc.
It's why the "Oh the Free Market will sort itself out" is such a bullshit claim.
My five year old who just got shot at the fifth school shooting this month is just gonna have to buckle down and be patient while I compare quality of service and cost of... the one hospital in town and.. that one in the next county ever.
/s
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This is why the ISPs don't want to do it. The FCC told them:
Providers are free, of course, to not pass these fees through to consumers to differentiate their pricing and simplify their Label display if they believe it will make their service more attractive to consumers and ensure that consumers are not surprised by unexpected charges.
The ISPs refuse to eat the costs of doing business. They know people will shit when they see all the fees that customers do not need to pay are being charged to them.
There will be lawsuits when the fees are listed.
It's not really about eating the costs of doing business. A restaurant doesn't charge you $1 at the end of your bill for washing your fork, it's just part of the cost of serving the dish and so your Salmon Rice dish is $18 not $17.
The point is that the listed prices for services should either have these fees be built right into the price...as pretty much all businesses do...or if you're going to put it at the end of the bill then it needs to be clearly defined per FCC.
It's a transparency problem. Not only is your $60 cell phone bill not actually $60 but then they also don't tell you about the additional fees very well when they tack them on at the end. It's gotta be one or the other, not neither.
Restaurants also don't have a line item on their bill to make you pay for their anti-unionization efforts. ISPs, on the other hand, do often have a "regulatory recovery fee," the purpose of which is to pay their lobbyists to fight regulators so they can continue to screw you.
An increasing number of restaurants are pulling exactly this sort of bullshit--little 3.5% fees at the bottom of the total check disclosed only in fine print on the menu (if at all) tied to COVID, paying their staff, processing credit cards, etc. It needs to end. Pricing should be upfront so customers can compare what they're actually paying, not snuck in at the end.
Why does everyone try to prove everyone else wrong? That entire first paragraph is completely unnecessary. You can simply add to a discussion without being "well actually " about some detail you want to nitpick. The other two paragraphs are spot on.
Because it's a meaningful distinction. The issue isn't them passing the cost to their customers. It's them lying about their prices instead of telling you what they're going to charge you.
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Difficulty doesn't make sense, because if they can charge you for it, then they can list it out on your bill.
Unless it's a "we need to show profit growth to our shareholders" fee.
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Aww it's too hard.. well make it simpler by not charging shitty little fees.
That's what makes it hard. If they tell you how much bullshit they add on, you wouldn't pay.
Lol as if people have a choice and there isn't a monopoly on ISP coverage
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If it's too hard to list them, it must be even harder to charge and bill them.
It is, that's why they probably overcharge you. They figure better to charge you for things and let you figure it out.
My ISP has no problem breaking out the fees.
And.... I am indeed, in the US.
So, not seeing the issue here.
It's not actually about listing the fees. They're worried that if they have to list the fees, customers will realize they're paying 19.99 a month to rent a router, or are getting charged for a land line they didn't ask for.
And get a discount for letting the cable company claim they have cable TV to scam money from ESPN.
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Yea... Comcast is really bad about that. When I had them a decade back, I made sure to being my own hardware.
You're paying $130 a month for your internet?? Where in the price gouging place do you live?
130 for 500gb fiber is an awesome deal in the US.
I used to pay $120/mo for business class 50mb asymmetrical coaxial with like 10 up. Had to get business class when Comcast started introducing data caps on the residential tier.
Now my ISP is bundled with my rent, so what I'm actually paying is totally opaque. No idea how much of my rent goes to Comcast. Oh, and it's not optional. I can't even get other service here because Comcast has a partnership with the building owners.
Telcos are fucked here.
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Here's a wild idea, simplify your pricing. Anyways, it's cool to see the FCC stand for the citizens every now and then.
If they can charge for something then they can adequately explain what the thing is they're charging for
Wasn't too much effort to add them to the bills of millions of people...
Okay everybody - this is one of those good things that the Biden Administration and Democrats are doing to properly run government.
It is also something that most people will not know about. Why? Because it's not a simple sound bite.
So my homework to all of us is to make sure our friends and Neighbors who are complaining about government not doing anything for us to point this and similar things out to them.
Real benefits, real work is almost never easily described in sound bites. So many people believe the Democrats don't do what they say they're going to do because getting s*** done is too complicated for most people.
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So we finally got rid of Ajat eh?
Wtf is happening in the US? Here I get an advertised monthly price for my subscription, I set up a direct deposit for that exact amount, when I buy it, then forget about it.
Maybe there is a commencement fee one time for the equipment they give me or work they do, but that's all.
How is it legal to advertise and agree on a price, then send random bills?
The companies make the rules since bribery is legal (see lobbying). They set whatever price they want, then use the money to buy the politicians that continue to create stronger pro-corporation laws continuing the lack of choice and change.
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One of those weird, rare situations where Google seems to do something right. They said the cost was $100, and every month I pay $100. I'm assuming fees are built into that, but my bill never deviates from the price I was told, which is really all I care about.
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Comcast is sad that it can't fuck us in hidden fees anymore. I feel terrible...just terrible for them.
If you can't list em, you shouldn't be able to charge for em
Paying every fee is even harder.
So let's stop doing that as well.
Based FCC
I love when FCC at least appears to do something, not like under Shit Pai.
Frankly though they should revise Title II classification for the Internet and remove exception from the requirement to share last mile to competitors. This is the main reason there's almost no competition. It doesn't make sense for every single ISP to run lines to every home. Those lines should be leaseable.
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Couldn’t happen to a better bunch.
I bought a plane ticket this week and it had all the fees listed. If airlines can do it, so can any multi-national corporation.
They had to be forced to properly show all the fees, only happened in Sept 2022
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