this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 179 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Phones should be turned off or left at home anyways when protesting. Here are my 10 commandments for engaging in protests:

1: never bring your wallet/ID. If you need to buy things, bring cash

2: either shut off your phone or leave it with your wallet. Recording police violence can be useful, in that case get the aclu app, a burner phone with the app, or an action camera

3: never speak to police under any circumstance

4: you can beat the charge but you can't beat the ride

5: bring water, it's more useful than for just drinking

6: bring hats, sunglasses, etc to avoid being identified by the state if it gets violent

7: wear good running shoes

8: know your rights, both federal and local, and when to use them

9: take out any contact lenses in case police use tear gas

10: stay aware of your surroundings; listen to picket line enforcers/community organizers

[–] Mr_Figtree@kbin.social 62 points 1 year ago (5 children)

These are all fine in the US, but in other countries not carrying proof of identity can get you into some trouble, as can refusing to talk to the police. Know your local laws.

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[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

never bring your ... ID

IRC illegal in France and plenty of other EU countries. That alone will cause you issues, even if they can't pin anything else on you.

never speak to police under any circumstance

Miranda rights aren't universal. For example, in the UK authorities may draw adverse inferences based on silence.

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[–] vita_man@lemmy.world 136 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This is scary because it could be exploited very easily by bad actors and is a huge invasion of privacy

[–] Kichae@kbin.social 103 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is coming in the wake of protests against pension reform being rammed through and riots over police killing kids.

There's zero reason to believe "being exploited by bad actors" isn't the point.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 40 points 1 year ago

Not only rammed through against the will of the people, but President Macaroon didn't even let Parliament have a say in it.

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[–] mekkagodzilla@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

The French state is a bad actor already.

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[–] henfredemars@infosec.pub 128 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But lawmakers agreed to the bill late Wednesday as Justice Minister Eric Dupond-Moretti insisted the bill would affect only “dozens of cases a year.”

Precisely why it should not be passed! That's not a good reason at all. It's not worth eroding people's rights if it only affects a few cases in my personal opinion. It shows that the law doesn't need to exist in the first place.

[–] illi@lemm.ee 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also... what kind of argument is that? It may be dozens a year but once it is normalized with those dozens, it will become few dozens and on and on it goes.

[–] henfredemars@infosec.pub 28 points 1 year ago

Not a general slippery slope argument, but rather, it's clear how it makes future erosion easier.

Today: People named Joe who live at this address can be harassed freely and that's perfectly legal. Tomorrow: It's not so extreme! Look, see, we've never universally respected these rights anyway. There are cases where we legally ignored them. We're just expanding existing rules to cover more cases.

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[–] G_Wash1776@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I always love when governments ask for powers to stop only a few cases, and act like it’s justification. Maybe, just maybe, do your job.

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[–] HallowellNash@lemmy.world 118 points 1 year ago (2 children)

WTF Macron? What happened to “Liberté, égalité, fraternité”? This is some “bullshité” if you ask me.

[–] admin@lemmy.magnor.ovh 43 points 1 year ago

He never gave a shit.

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[–] AllonzeeLV@vlemmy.net 84 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

The UK already fell to the multinational capitalist greed machine. Looks like France is falling, too. Any and all means to squash the protest of citizens of the society that might hurt the gdp output of the beloved economy.

Because everyone seems to have forgotten, an economy is supposed to be a tool to better distribute goods and services for the benefit of society. When a society lives in service to, and is harmed for the benefit of the economy, your society is ass backwards.

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[–] Cornpop@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago (1 children)

France and the UK really have gone to hell in a hand basket. Dystopian bullshit. No wonder they are rioting.

[–] just_ducky_in_NH@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We should be rioting as well, but we are too apathetic.

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[–] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.world 63 points 1 year ago

Police

What could go wrong?

[–] YellowtoOrange@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't imagine we're going to see stories in the near future about how the police abuse these powers :/

[–] Qwazpoi@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

What's extra scary is the thought that there will be no stories coming out about how this is abused. Not to say that it won't be, just that the stories that will come out will be how scary the world is and how the police are the only ones keeping everyone safe. Meanwhile some cop is watching someone sleep, or shower, or anything else in the privacy of their own home.

[–] CantStopPoppin@lemmy.one 59 points 1 year ago (11 children)

If they are allowed to do these other countries will follow suit. This is a dangerous precedent in which no one is safe regardless of boarders.

[–] Bucket_of_Truth@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

During the 2020 protests in Portland, Or the US Marshalls flew a plane equipped cell phone snooping equipment over downtown for hours every day. The equipment acts as a mock cell tower so mobile phone traffic in the area gets routed through their tools before going to an actual tower. It also collects data from wifi in the area, in addition to whatever unknown abilities it has. This was around the time anonymous federal agents were picking up people off the streets in white vans and hiding in bushes shooting pepperballs at people walking by.

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[–] nicomart@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago (4 children)

What kind of Orwellian shit is the french government pulling?

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[–] Navarian@lemm.ee 51 points 1 year ago (19 children)

I've never been so happy to have the ability to root my phone and flash a new OS onto it. This shit is absolutely insane, I'm surprised there isn't more eyes on this from non-profits globally.

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[–] golamas1999@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This is the same government that says using an ad blocker, vpn, custom rom, linux and or encrypted messaging service puts you at higher suspicion of being a terrorist.

I see them enacting these policies now as the large number of pro labor protests fighting the government all over the country on pensions “reform”.

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[–] KingCrimson@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Damn France and Macron are really leaning into the authoritarianism lately

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[–] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 46 points 1 year ago

The leaders of France seem to forget that their citizens used to make people shorter for less.

[–] Xariphon@kbin.social 44 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How do you say "All Cops Are Bastards" in French?

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I looked it up:

Tous les flics sont des bâtards

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[–] mook71@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I brought this up at work and somebody said we sold our soul in the us with the Patriot act.

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[–] 6mementomori@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

literally "literally 1984"

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[–] coffeewithalex@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Read the article. Title is clickbait. It's only with approval from a judge. You know, alternatively they could just arrest and imprison the person, which is what every country is doing. Not saying it's without worrying, but there's important nuance that most are missing.

P.S.

Absolute extremist attitudes like "nobody should be able" and so on, have absolutely no place in modern society. There's always nuance. Libertarianism doesn't work, and laws must be enforced. It sucks, but when there are forces that want to hurt people and destabilize societies, you can't go by the rule that everyone is a saint. The world will punish this attitude.

Yes, the world isn't perfect, but for ducks sake, quit sensationalizing anecdotes and representing them as "this always happens". That's dishonest.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

So? Even with a warrant, thats not a power that people should have. No one, warrant or not, should be able to remotely activate your phone/camera/etc and monitor it. The fact that power exists means smart phones are an even bigger personal safety and privacy threat than they already were.. and if police can do it with a warrant, then there are gonna be people who figure out how to do it without one and for far more malicious reasons.

[–] Void_Sloth@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ah yes it's ok to violate my rights, as long as a judge approves it.

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

we have that same nuance here in the united states and it's be shown that the judge's approval is nothing more than a rubber stamp.

[–] admin@lemmy.magnor.ovh 26 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I live in France. The government here is using every single tool they have to prosecute radical leftists and environmentalists while ignoring the fact that more than 60 % of the police force has fascist adjacent ideals. I do not want these people spying on me, period. This is not some libertarian horseshit, trust me.

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[–] Syrc@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

What the FUCK? Is there any uncorrupted government left on the planet?

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[–] TicklishRocket@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not quite done with the last riot and want a new one it seems.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They better riot fast. Normalized camera peeking will change the tone there very quickly.

People will be stuffing their phones into couches or running water and shit, and some AI will be able to detect patterns of surveillance evasion and they won’t even have to do anything official about it just send the surveillance avoider a message in the form of a camera turning to follow them or something like “hey, we noticed you’re being sus”.

And then there will be huge incentive slope toward not avoiding surveillance. So people will have to fall back on hiding their thoughts.

And the mental strain will be enormous. And that will sap their fight.

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[–] DharkStare@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dystopian fiction was not supposed to be a guide on what to do.

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[–] CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 year ago

What the fuck, France.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Modern Tech plus AI - authoritarian regimes can't ever be overthrown.

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[–] PostalDude@lemmy.fmhy.ml 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

This is why we need to strip the US gov. of power, before shit like this starts happening (which ik, it kinda already is.)

[–] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

100% certainty that the FBI and CIA are already doing this and don't give a shit that it's illegal.

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[–] phikshun@lemmy.fmhy.ml 27 points 1 year ago

Yeah but you guys still have the guillotines in storage or something though, right? Might be time to dust them off.

[–] Secret300@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

It bugs me that people will bitch about privacy all day but won't do anything about it. Most people just go Image

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