this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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[–] cyd@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

This is an unserious proposal. Germany spends about 1.5 percent of its GDP(*) on defence, much of it wasted, and increasing it to even 2 percent has involved painful and extended political wrangling. If the country collectively cannot find the will to tweak its budget to fund a modest increase in defence spending, it is not going to countenance universal conscription.

(*) GDP, not budget; error pointed out by Enkrod

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 23 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's a serious proposal, but not as a universal conscription. It's intended to only call everyone in for the health check and use that as a way to get young people interested in the army.

There are different models floating around, the most serious being that everyone (including women) gets called in and you basically choose between civil service and army. The civilian side can ramp up slots rather quickly, the army doesn't. So the army probably will ramp up over several years.

Also, I wouldn't call 100 billion € a "modest increase".

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

To be honest, conscription aside, I think a gap year of civil service would be a good idea. It gives you a break from school - university - work, you don't feel like you lost time since everyone has to do it, and you get into a mindset outside of your preplanned route, which might do you good.

[–] ahornsirup@sopuli.xyz 7 points 6 months ago

I'm going to have to disagree. It's forced labour, no amount of pretty words changes that. It's also not a "break" if you have to work, and considering that you'd be unskilled and probably physical labour with no (simple) way for you to quit if faced with abuse, it probably won't even be under good conditions or compensated fairly.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 3 points 6 months ago

This is already very common in Germany, if anything it would make it worse for many

[–] Enkrod@feddit.de 23 points 6 months ago (3 children)

This is PATENTLY wrong. It's 1.49% of GDP, not budget.

Defense budget is 10.9% of the governments budget, it's the second largest budgeted item after social wellfare and in front of infrastructure (which is crumbling) and debt. To increase it to 2% of gross domestic product means spending an additional amount equal to the entire budget for education and research.

[–] MBM@lemmings.world 9 points 6 months ago

Oh wow, this is the first time I see this difference mentioned. NATO really expects that much military spending?

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

Apologies for the mistake.

But the point remains: 2% of GDP is the NATO target, getting even to that point for Germany has been like pulling teeth, and a serious implementation of universal conscription would be a much bigger ask.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu -2 points 6 months ago

Dead children don't need education, problem solved!

[–] Killing_Spark@feddit.de 5 points 6 months ago

To be honest, getting a majority to agree that the youth should do what most other generations did seems easier than taking money out of other budgets. Even before Russias attack there had been calls to make every young person do a year or Service for society. The plan was more socially beneficial back then but the sentiment of just ignoring what the younger generation wants isn't new

[–] ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The draft has never been abolished in germany, it has only officially been 'suspended'. Resuming it would be easy.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Except that you need to actually house, feed, clothe and train those draftees and most western militaries no longer have the capacity to do that at scale.

The fact that it is legally easy does not say anything about how difficult it will be organizationally

[–] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago

CoD 2 Tutorial Russian Campaign vibes. Throwing potatoes to train throwing grenades incoming.

[–] weker01@feddit.de 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Legally yes it would be easy. Practically we do not have the infrastructure anymore for it.

Heck iirc the state doesn't even have the capability to know who would need to be drafted anymore.

[–] suction@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Ah the Trump lies really got to you