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I know Israel is a small country of only 10M people with a traumatic history surrounded by enemies...so they need to act tough in their neighbourhood, take no shit and all...but they start to feel like the tiny angry girlfriend who dates a big guy and picks up fights in every bar expecting everyone to be afraid that her date will come to the rescue every time...
Painting Israel as a victim just for having a small population / geography... I don't know about that. They've committed far too many massscres since their inception to be portrayed like that.
They were victims of the Holocaust. They were aggressors in the Nakba. They were probably victims one or more times after that, as well as aggressors (I'm a bit fuzzy on that history, honestly), and now they're aggressors doing a "proportionate genocide" in Gaza. And they want to start shit with Iran, which might just be a case of two assholes fighting each other.
Jews were victims of the Holocaust
Zionists were aggressors in the Nakba
Don't conflate Judaism with Zionism
Yeah, but Zionism is a Jewish movement, and I doubt there were many Zionists who got through the Holocaust unscathed. It was the major motivating factor for actually doing it, so it is a big part of the picture.
Signed, a (technically) Jewish anti-Zionist.
It's a movement that concerns followers of Judaism. But plenty of Zionists are Evangelicals etc. And Zionism has always had support from Non-Jews, dating back to its 19th century origins
I actually don't know much about the history of non-Jewish support, come to think of it. I should look into that.
Stop giving in to the narrative that Israel equates to Jews. Jews suffered the Holocaust. Israel does not benefit from the suffering endured by a distinct group
Inequivalent, yes, distinct no. The founding of Israel and especially the settlement had a lot to do with the Holocaust. That doesn't justify the Nakba, but if someone is trying to make one side out as always the villain they're basically part of the problem we've had this whole time.
We're all people. Just ordinary people, like you'd meet in a grocery store, but also capable of horrendous things.
Lol, I called them US's little Chihuahua dog that rabidly barks at any moving object
Chihuahuas don’t kill so many children.
So pitbull then
Let’s be honest, they would if they could.
Also they have started the hostilities and made enemies of neighbors, not like they weren't offered a fair share of land even in the face of them settling in there because the big ex-boyfriend just forced so.
The tiny angry girlfriend who is also killing children and old people in her basement?
I'm not quite sure how to fit Netanyahu into this analogy, but that's also a factor. The dude doesn't want to go to jail and it looks like he has no problem flattening the Middle East if it helps prop him up.
Seems like no one in Israel has any issues with following orders.
Israel is an apartheid. Stop falling for the Holocaust sympathy propaganda. The country is rotten to the core and doesn't represent Jews.
It is an open air prison, no doubt about that. Yet the apartheid in this case did not arise out of pure racism, but as a reaction to a history of constant suicide bombings. Besides, there are 2 million palestinian israelis living peacefully inside Israel...but there is also a part of Israel that does not help their case either by covering for every nationalist invading the West Bank or the cruelty they allow to go unpunished e.g. Shireen Abu Akleh.
Pretty sure isrealis were the first to bomb given that they were doing it before their country existed and then took terrorists as national heroes and military leaders.
Ok... great ... as if the problem wasn't complex enough, there were/are? also crazy jewish bombers :/
The point is, you stated the apartheid was a response to bombings, but Zionist terrorists were bombing and killing Palestinians before the Israeli state existed, and those terrorists were rewarded by the West and put into positions of power in Israel. After which there has been continued resistance by Palestinians.
It's an apartheid, but it's good. Get out of here.
What would you have done?
I personally wouldn't have used mass murder and eviction to create an ethnostate aka Israel. Israel then has proceeded to annex more land against all treaties, blocks aid from entering Palestine and routinely murders Palestinian civilians. Are you saying Israel had no other options?
Yes, I agree it should not have been done, it is the UN's original sin. But now it is there, survived lots of attacks from its beighbours, lots of jews were expelled from e.g. arab countries to shelter there, you just can't go back.
I'm asking what you would do if 20% of a country next to you kept trying to kill you (hamas wouldn't even be happy with Palestinian statehood, they just want Israel wiped off the map).
I'd "build a wall", stop weapons going in and let them be until they calm down somehow...but that's not what Israel did anyway...and hamas got over the fucking wall anyway, so here we are...back to 2007 again.
They didn't just do that though, they funded Hamas, allowed them to recieve weapons, refuses to recognize any sort of Palestinian statehood, pursued policies that enabled the most extreme factions of Palestinian resistance and thwarts any attempt at lasting peace. There is a long-term plan in the works by Israeli forces to annex all of Palestine. Israeli officials from top to bottom have made it clear they want to eliminate Palestine as an idea.
What would you do if you were Palestinian?
Stop being an apartheid and have a truth and reconciliation process to correct the wrongs done to the Palestinians.
I stopped looking at this problem through the lens of morality, it just leads you into a paralyzing spiral of blame and righteousness, because you have millions of people who don't even know their borders, their status, their rights, an israeli military that is not sure where their jurisdiction and authority ends, a divided capital (that in itself is a stupid diplomatic trap by design, who the hell thought that would ever work?). This was a political failure in the making born from the utopian lack of vision of the birth of the UN: a political trap for anyone that gets near it, which can also be weaponized into political ammo by outside forces.
Probably the only solution starts by disabling the first layer of the trap: a palestinian state with its own official borders (which is its own problem, because there is no contiguity...legacy of the stupid original bipartite design), some form of limited military, navigation rights, release Marwan Barghouti, etc ...and then you pray that hamas does not win the elections and immediately declare jihad on Israel :/ , but at least then there will be some clarity about what to do in terms of what we want states to act like with each other.