this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

We can start with:

  • Single payer healthcare

  • Ending the War on Drugs

  • Ending Qualified immunity

  • Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.

  • Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren't 30-40 kids for one teacher.

  • UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.

  • End for profit prisons

  • Enforce the laws already on the books

  • Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don't turn to violence/gangs to survive.

  • Increase the minimum wage

  • Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don't turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.

  • Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.

  • Banning Insider Trading for Congress

  • Term limits

  • Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

So basically... Fix every other nearly impossible to fix problem first before even deciding to do anything about the actual guns, if anything at all?

And to be clear, by impossible to fix, I mean politically, not that these problems are actually unsolvable.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So you're plan is to try and tackle something that's written into the constitution.... that's your goal? Say it's nearly impossible to do everything else on that list which isn't written into our constitution...but guns... they're easier to fix...fucking hell you all are really naive.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So you’re plan is to try and tackle something that’s written into the constitution… that’s your goal?

You mean like slavery?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Are you equating slavery to owning firearms? You white privileged ivory tower types are hilarious.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nope. I'm equating slavery to tackling something in the constitution and changing it. You know, the thing you just implied was not something that could be done. I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yea everyone basically agreed slavery was bad...we fought a fucking civil war over it...the majority of the USA is pro-gun. You will never radify the constitution to remove or nullify the 2nd. It's not going to ever happen.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If everyone agreed, why did we fight a civil war over it?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Are you suggesting we fight another civil war so you can repeal the 2nd amendment? You do realize who wins that one right?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You didn't answer my question. If everyone agreed, why was there a war over it?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I did answer it...you just didn't like the answer.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No you didn't. Either everyone agreed or a war was fought over it. It can't be both. You don't fight a war over something everyone agrees on.

So feel free to explain that contradiction. I doubt you will.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Because most of the ignorant south at the time didn't know shit about it being fought against slavery. Me and 100million + other firearm owners haven't killed anyone or used our firearms in anger..which harms 0 people... slavery harms a fuck load of people and you equating it to the 2nd is hilariously naive. Congress can't even get single payer healthcare past..yet you think we can ratify the constitution?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Most" didn't? So some did? Then I guess not everyone agreed. So what you said was not true.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At this point you're just being a troll.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I'm a troll because you said a war was fought over something everyone agreed on. Logical.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

More people agreed that it needed to be than didn't...and again. That will not happen with the 2nd, because more people in the USA agree with it than don't. You're in the tiny minority that wants it repealed. If you don't like it, move to another country.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Most? So it was a war against a tiny minority of people? That is your contention?

Also, "if you don't like it, leave" is something bigots say. Are you sure you want to be using their language?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes it was a war fought with a tiny minority running the damn thing. The majority of the soldiers on the southern side were penniless and were lied to. You know damn well what I'm saying but you're in such a "gotcha" mode that you think the 2nd has any chance of being repealed.

And really? We're going to go with trying to lump me into that shit? Lol

The white privilege just oozes off you.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Please provide evidence that only a small minority of Southerners approved of slavery.

Also, please provide evidence that I am white.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Where did I say that? I said that minority didn't own slaves.

Again, answer my question, do you think that you have enough support to repeal the 2nd amendment?

Dude you're so white and the ivory tower you sit in requires welding goggles to look at it... wanting to ban guns and put in gun control measures is a mainly white thing...and it only pops up when there is a mass shooting... you're white.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ah, so your evidence that I'm white is that you think what I say is something only white people say?

Sounds pretty racist.

I don't think I'm going to indulge a racist by answering their questions.

By the way...

wanting to ban guns

This is a lie. I do not want to ban guns. I have absolutely no problem with most people who own guns or wish to buy them in the future.

You are a liar who makes racist statements.

Shame on you.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah ok buddy, keep up that white privilege...this entire thread is because you think their is enough support to repeal the 2nd...gun control is racist. I'm not the one wanting to disarm minorities. You are.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

this entire thread is because you think their is enough support to repeal the 2nd

No, this entire thread is because you said "So you’re plan is to try and tackle something that’s written into the constitution… that’s your goal?" and I pointed out that slavery was an example of tackling something that's written into the Constitution. Then you said that everyone agreed that slavery was wrong and that a war was fought against it in the same post, which, as I have pointed out repeatedly, is a contradiction.

I never said anything about having enough support to repeal the second amendment. That is a lie.

I’m not the one wanting to disarm minorities. You are.

This is another lie. I have no interest in disarming minorities. In fact, any new gun regulations I would support would only apply to new gun sales.

That is three lies now.

Please stop lying. You have absolutely no reason to lie.

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I didn't specify a plan one way or another. I just think it's crazy that the talking points you presented seem pretty clearly designed to just kick this issue down the road, cause at least that way you still get to have your guns.

And believe me, solving all those things you mentioned would be great. But why not also try and do something about the major gun issues at the same time too?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Those "talking points" would solve our firearm violence. We don't have a gun problem, we have a societal one. Random mass shootings are a new phenomenon...gang violence and drug violence are not. Solving these things with the list I posted, would curb our violence epidemic 100xs more than just another emotional gun law from people who don't understand guns.

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We do have a societal problem. We also very much have a gun problem.

And proposing all these other things you know won't get accomplished is a way to shift all the responsibility away from the gun issue itself.

And you aren't being emotional about even the thought of some more gun control or anything to even tackle that issue head on? Come on.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It might be because I'm not delusional about why we have the violence in the first place. I'm proposing things that actually would make a difference, another AWB or mag cap/mag ban/etc is emotional policies that will not put a single dent in our gun violence... I'm not the one kicking the can down the road, you are.

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I personally didn't propose any of those policies. I genuinely don't know what would work best. I just think you are being really transparent in treating the guns themselves as having nothing to do with the issue of gun violence.

I think everything you were saying would be great to accomplish. It's just really disingenuous to propose them knowing there is a slim chance any of them will happen while completely ignoring the actual guns, just because you want to keep your guns.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The statistics and other countries show that violence is mainly driven by poverty and ignorance. Work on those two main things, and you slow the violence.

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

And most other countries also have much stricter gun control laws too.

We could work on those things and the gun problem too.

So again, you are being very transparent by completely disregarding the guns as if they somehow aren't part of the gun violence problem.

Either way. I think this is where I drop out of this. We are going in circles and while I agree we should work on the things you mention, we clearly just disagree about the actual guns themselves. And of course neither of us are actually in a direct position to make changes to any of those things, I assume. So you have a good one.

[–] MonsterHighStan@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

Those are all fantastic suggestions. In my opinion we absolutely should be taking much more drastic measures to decrease school shootings in the meantime, as nearly everything you suggest would still take at least ~15-20 years to see results. Any dead kid is too many and there are way too many school shootings.

[–] Amends1782@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Lol fantastic response. And its crickets from everyone else being critical

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

No, not crickets. Those things sound great, let's do them. We should do everything we can, and that also includes stricter gun laws.

Not term limits though. It may sound like a good idea, but I implore you to research issues with term limits.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Term limits need to happen, otherwise you end up being ruled by politicians who are in a perpetual cycle of trying to stay in office.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Term limits will seal the deal to the end of our Democracy.

Either you're arguing in bad faith, and know this, or you're refusing to inform yourself of the downsides.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So you're ok with SCOTUS and other judges being appointed and no term limits? What about the POTUS, are you saying it's ok if Trump won and kept being president as long as he continues to win?

Please tell me the good sides of having no term limits. Laws shouldn't be straped to a single person.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Buddy, I'm not going to do all the work for you. This is a well researched subject with a ton of information, it's not some brand new idea.

I was mainly referring to elected positions, I'm not necessarily against term limits for Supreme Court Justices.

Edit: See my reply to the knob below for a few sources.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Lol that's a cop out for, I don't have anything other than shit from life long politicians who say it's bad. You're the one making the claim not me.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Oh my fucking god, do like 3 seconds of googling before being so goddamn confident you're correct. Jesus Christ, I'm not your fucking nanny:

look at that, pretty much the first result and it's NPR - https://www.npr.org/2023/10/29/1207593168/congressional-term-limits-explainer

More because apparently you can't do anything yourself. But don't expect me to pull out the relevant quotes or anything, you can do that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/16/term-limits-congress-senate-house/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/term-limits-exacerbate-all-the-problems-with-our-government.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3979677-term-limits-wouldnt-clean-up-congress-they-could-make-things-worse/

https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2016/10/18/13323842/trump-term-limits

Good enough, or...?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You might want to read your own articles...none of them strictly state how term limits are bad. The NPR article even calls out the bullshit. Most politicians shouldn't be politicians in the first place, because they're not there to do good, they're there to get reelected.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Want to know how I know you didn't even read all of the headlines of those links, let alone the content itself?

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

O I did, you just don't understand them. Almost everyone of them is there because they see that the odds of new people coming in means there is no one to train them... that's the entire reasoning...and that incumbents almost always keep their seats. It's party based power, and it's good for both sides, while being shit for the people.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And you can end with bringing your gun regulations up to speed to every other developed nation.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Or not because it's not the guns... it's our society that needs fixing.