this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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this post feels pro-nazi in a way that discomforts me
I don't think it's pro nazi, why do you say that?
It's just a possible implication for insisting on using Nazi iconography. Doesn't have to be true, it's just a natural implication with insistance. After all, a kid wouldn't insist on McD's unless they actually liked it. Yes, not necessarily applicable to art, but we're talking implications, not statements of fact!
That's really stupid logic.
I didn't say it was the only interpretation. It's just among the subsets of implications. It is those implications that drive peoples' attitude towards a GREAT deal of things.
How do you think people still dislike good things they only heard about from the grape vine? Why do people view positive political policy that'd directly help them as "stupid", too? Why was "Obamacare" a bad thing but the Affordable Care Act wasn't? Why do some people dislike Mr Beast despite all the charity?
Yes it's stupid in some cases, but this IS ABSOLUTELY how some people think.
Like it or not, but this is how people work. Call how the human mind works stupid all you want, but ignoring how it works will bring you only ignorance.
My apologies, I truly didn't mean anything along those lines. It is an important feature of the musical, but that's hard to describe in a four panel Yu-Gi-Oh meme. If that's the consensus though, I'm happy to remove.
to me the flow of “anti-nazi org says no -> i found a loophole -> anti nazi org is shocked and defeated” feels uncomfortable to me. it’s not the subject matter or your point, but presented in this yugioh format it feels like it’s leaning on the wrong side to me.
To me it felt more like
Modern anti Nazi place says "No, we don't want to be associated with that."
Director says "You have a history of it, we'll show you guys welcoming them instead."
Modern anti Nazi place says "Fine just don't show that footage of us happily welcoming them"
I wouldn't say anti-Nazi org, but rather just a place that is, for better or worse, trying to bury their Nazi past.
You can interpret it in two ways, I guess. One is trying to move beyond that horrific past by outlawing Nazi symbols, and they refuse to make exceptions so as not to give the Nazis any ground.
But on the other hand, refusal to allow such images to be used for a film specifically set during that period of time can also be interpreted as denial that the place even had a Nazi past at all.
If the joke is that they are shocked and defeated by the promise of using real historical footage depicting their actual Nazi past, it implies the latter interpretation being the more correct, since any place that is truly remorseful about the past wouldn't try to deny what happened and therefore wouldn't take offense to the use of historical footage.
Thanks a lot for making me feel better!!
20-30y ago is a good chunk of time. my parents were 20 when i was born, and i would not want to be judged by my parents decisions either.
You’re talking about a generation after the nazis. they’re ashamed of their nazi parents the same way people today are ashamed of their maga dollarstore-nazi family.
For the record I think the producers of SoM should have been able to use the original footage they wanted to; however i would not be as willing to rewatch it as i am now if every viewing meant i was subjected to that kind of emotional trauma if they had.
Oh gosh no you brought up a good point! We like that.
How so? Its been a while since i watched it, but sound of music wasnt a pro-nazi movie? Kinda the opposite?
SoM was indeed anti-nazi, yes. But this meme is about subverting an anti-nazi political body with a loophole, which shocks (and assumedly, from the comic panels, defeats) said political body. this part, which is not included in the original work, is what makes me uncomfortable.
I can see it a little, but you’re overthinking it.
The director wanted his movie to be authentic, the city didn’t want to stir up the past. Director rightfully says ok, I have an alternative. City horrified of how it’s portrayed and folds.
The negative is that the swastika will fly for filming, obviously, promoting (very) indirectly.
That aspect doesn’t make this meme pro-nazi as I see it. The whole point is that a creative wanted something that the decision makers tried to block. The creative does what their name implies and finds a hack to get their vision closer to what ends up on film.
Yeah, it's a lot the meme format and the underlying implication of defeat that makes it feel weird to me. I actually think that they shouldn't have needed the loophole, and on its whole, portraying a negative thing in a negative light is valid. but the meme format puts this in a weird place for me b/c of the implication of defeat
You're misinterpreting this imo, I would assume because of a distance to Austrian politics. Austrian governing bodies are very seldomly actually anti-nazi. Instead, they are bringing forth right-wing policies while virtue signalling that "nazism bad".
Fair enough, i can see how you got there. Subverting an anti-nazi body in order to authentically trash nazis in a film seems like a net-positive to me. Thanks for elaborating though, I appreciate the different perspective.
...but thats what happened
I get a similar feeling, but to me I think it's because this is very similar to a right wing debate strategy, which is making the audience think you're cooler than your opponent and not worrying about being right.
It's a very similar vibe
I feel that too. It’s easy to misconstrue as anti nazi people getting pwned. Then again it’s really old nazis getting pwned by anti nazi musical director
What it actually is is "actual nazis not wanting people to know they were nazis" being pwned by "anti-nazis wanting to show how those actual nazis were actually nazis"
That's what I thought as well. Simple really
I'm not sure how wanting historical accuracy is pro-nazi.
Does a WWII war movie that accurately portrays the actions of Nazis feel pro-Nazi to you?
Imagine instead they used some other stand-in for what Nazis really looked like. 100 years later, people will watch the movie and not make the connection between the people in the movie and the Nazis because the symbols aren't the same.
Not a good outcome.
This attitude that "we shouldn't accurately portray history because it's icky" is ... bad.
Sometimes specificity is necessary for critique. I wonder how many analogs for Nazis and fascists were used in media back then, it feels like its a current trend and in the past they just used nazi imagery to be specific about who exactly are the enemies and assholes.