this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
144 points (81.9% liked)

World News

39032 readers
2428 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The Thai government has called for the release of all remaining citizens being held in Gaza. So far at least 33 Thai nationals have been killed, according to figures shared by Thai authorities with CNN – with 18 Thai nationals still being held hostage as of October 26.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know that. Do you think that this is evidence that

Hamas... changed their charter in 2017 to only demand a return to 1967 borders.

It is obviously not.

It only acknowledges that Hamas will not oppose such a plan if it is approved by the Palestinian people, along with the specific conditions listed. The document outlines that the long-term demand is irrevocably all of the land from The River To The Sea as a State of Palestine and no State of Israel whatsoever.

It's unambiguous.

But you already saw that because you have read the document. I'm no longer addressing these comments to you, but to the people who've actually read this far in the thread and are interested in learning, rather than propaganda.

So let's look at those specific conditions listed. According to the 2017 charter, who are the "refugees and the displaced?" You might reasonably think that refers to the 700,000 Palestinians who were displaced by the 1948 war. No, as the charter specifies, it is any of the 6.4 million people who can identify at least one Palestinian ancestor. That is over 60% of the current population of Israel. It includes third-generation Americans and Europeans. It includes most members of Hamas.

And what is Israel supposed to do with this 65% increase in population? Again, it's specified in the charter. Israel must "return their homes," meaning provide a physical house for every family at no cost. Additionally, Israel must pay unspecified reparations. There is no amount of reparations that would be acceptable in place of a physical house in Israel, nor any other tolerable location.

To reiterate, Hamas will temporarily recognize a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders

If and only if

Israel agrees to absorb 6.4 million people into a population of under 10 million (including members of Hamas), buy them each a house, pay them additional reparations, and give up any claim on Jerusalem or the 5 holiest sites in Judaism.

Again, this is not my opinion, it is all laid out in the charter itself.

The belief that Hamas is anything other than a terrorist organization intent on eliminating the only Jewish-majority state in the world, is just not borne out by any version of reality.

Meanwhile, Israel has peacefully turned over more land and resources than the entire current area of the State in exchange for peace with neighbors. Israel has offered Palestinian leaders nearly every inch of the land of Palestine, but every offer has been rejected by the Palestinian leaders. Don't be confused by Propaganda.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago

Israel agrees to absorb 6.4 million people into a population of under 10 million (including members of Hamas),

I mean yes. Those are the descendants of the people who were displaced by Israel, and they have a right to return to their homes.

Israel has offered Palestinian leaders nearly every inch of the land of Palestine, but every offer has been rejected by the Palestinian leaders.

That's misinformation. It's a pain to list all of them, so if anyone bothered to read this far and is curious about why any specific offer failed, just ask. Hint: The answer is usually that Israel, not Palestine, refused to compromise.