this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
206 points (93.6% liked)

World News

39023 readers
2458 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Kilnier@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

On the ‘fought a war and lost’ point that’s the crux of it. The nation state one a war against a(series of pseudo-) nation state and the loser was subjugated and their governance dissolved. Fair enough. Spoils to the victor etc.

Where this falls apart is that we are not willing, able or morally justified in destroying the cultural nation. Genocide is not acceptable whether a physical or cultural. And so what is a democracy left to do especially when trying to establish a stable nation containing multiple polities? It follows that the victor nation state must hold its various contained cultural nations in equal value and that their cultures have their own value that should not be subjugated in the same manner that their previous political system was.

So yes, this leads to tricky concepts and conversations where various cultural nations have radically different means of disseminating authority and rights. For many aboriginal groups this is an internal democratic(or a similar cultural process that entails a pseudo-democratic process) which chooses and appoints elders who have the responsibility, ability and obligations to speak on behalf of their nation and peoples.

Where this ties into the Westphalian nation state concept is that yes, our current set up of international borders and their moral justifications are based in inherently racist tropes and morals. In the face of greater freedom of movement and globalization this system is encountering various limits to its implementation as we are seeing in Australia with this referendum or in Canada with the Quebecois and First Nations.

So are you actually going to stand on ‘no racism in my politics’ and support the free movement of individuals and the eradication of the Westphalian nation state system? Or will you recognize that nothing is absolute and compromise must be made to have an inherently racist, but mostly effective and deeply entrenched geopolitical paradigm, continue to work in light of multicultural and multi-national states?

In short, you can hold you own sense of nobility and righteousness in your supposed anti-racist stance but pragmatism and the implementation of your ideals has been shown to and will continue to lead to further cultural genocides. Canada spent a century trying to make the natives white under this same ideal that a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian. Ultimately you’re standing on a very shaky and naive soapbox.