this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
542 points (90.2% liked)

World News

39032 readers
2467 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FederatedSaint@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm disgusted that a few days ago some terrorists attacked a music festival and killed hundreds and you're defending the terrorists. It sounds like you've been taken in by some propaganda yourself.

If condemning terrorists attacking innocent people at a music festival means I'm a product of propaganda, then so be it.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're absolutelly right in condemning terrorist attacks like that one.

All terrorist attacks should be condemned, including ordering people to shelter in a specific place and bombing them as describe here.

If your condemnation is indeed Principled, then all such acts of murder for the purposed of terrifying the rest are equally repugnant and you'll condemn them equally no matter the "side" of those who did such disgusting acts.

As Principle seems to be notably absent in how so many commenters have tackled the subject matter (with only some murders being important, not others, depending on which "side" did it), I pointed it out.

[–] JWayn596@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Let's not forget that the act of using civilians as shields is a warcrime in the first place to prevent this kind of situation from occurring.

If Israel tells Palestinian civilians to evacuate because there's Hamas military targets in that building, and Hamas troops tell them no. Then they die, and Hamas can cry wolf.

It would be Israel who is following international decorem and Hamas making it difficult for any country to support them.

Just now, Austria cut off aid to the Gaza region. Is that Israel's fault? Nope.

Hamas had good PR going and they fucked it up by escalating with brutality.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Cutting off power to Palestinians is also a war crime. Why are war crimes only bad when Palestine does them an not when Israel does them 5x as often?

[–] JWayn596@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not justifying anything that Israel has done in the past. The main point of my comment is that Hamas made a really poor decision here on behalf of the Palestinians. There is absolutely no doubt.

There is no moralizing or whataboutism.

The fact of the matter is that this caused a divided Israel to unite in anger. And support for Palestine has been cut by all European nations and Australia. Palestinian sympathizers and charity leaders have been among the victims.

The question you should be asking is if you support the Palestinian people is...

What the actual hell is this bonehead decision-making by Hamas? There is no scenario of success in this endeavor unless the Western world decided to withdraw all support from Israel and give it to Hamas.

Was that going to happen? No. Hamas never tried to establish good diplomatic relations with anyone.

The world stage is a democratic club, and Hamas rejected it all. Hamas burned every single bridge with other countries no matter how many citizens of those governments complain.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] JWayn596@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Okay I'll answer you. It's wrong for Israel to cut power to civilians. It's right for Israel to cut power to military targets.

If military targets embed their infrastructure with civilian infrastructure. Oopsies. Civilians are now military targets.

Palestinians MAYBE shouldn't have Hamas in power if they're going to power their military operations with civilian power. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Every world power knows that, that's why most have pretty much gotten behind Israel, regardless of any apartheid Israel has done.

The US did the same thing when 9/11 happened. The US did the same thing in Operation Desert Storm along with other NATO countries who joined the US in operations in the middle east.

Nobody in the west complained then, and nobody's complaining now, because Hamas did the dumb dumb.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If military targets embed their infrastructure with civilian infrastructure. Oopsies. Civilians are now military targets.

NO! What the fuck NO! Even if that was true it's disgusting but Israel routinely lies about the presence of Hamas and then never even bothers to doctor proof.

Every world power knows that, that’s why most have pretty much gotten behind Israel, regardless of any apartheid Israel has done.

Lol nah, its because the US and UK use Israel as a FOB. That's it. It's strategically advantageous so they will get behind any lie Israel makes up that helps them keep it as a base.

Nobody in the west complained then, and nobody’s complaining now, because Hamas did the dumb dumb.

Yes they did. Bro lie through your teeth more. And you act like what the US did after 9/11 was a good thing? It fucking wasn't. WE ALL KNOW THAT NOW. We accept that Bush did war crimes. No one argues about that. We don't do anything about it but we all look back and are like "wow that was really fucked up"

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Literally the first thing the US does in any engagement is cut the power.

It's not a war crime lol

With certain limitations, parts of a country's electrical grid can be considered legitimate targets if they are used to power military facilities. This is true even if the targets have a civilian as well as a military purpose, so long as destroying the object would "offer a definite military advantage"

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Israeli authorities' cutting off electricity to Gaza and other punitive measures against Gaza's civilian population would amount to unlawful collective punishment, which is a war crime, said the Human Rights Watch on 9 October.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Human Rights Watch is an activist group with no authority.

You are free to agree or disagree with them. Clearly I disagree here, but I do agree with their condemnation of the Palestinian attacks.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't care about your opinion I care about the facts. Israel is very openly doing war crimes.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is not a fact. That is an opinion.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cool story bud. We done here?

The original conversation was "the collective punishment Israel is engaging in isn't a war crime", you've moved the goalposts and I'm not interested in continuing this game.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As if the US gives a single fuck about war crimes. If we did, at least 5 people from George W. Bush's administration would be rotting in prison right now.

Yes, it's still a war crime when we do it.

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That terrorist attack has already happened, and there's another terrorist attack underway, this time with cassette munitions and white phosphorus and in general very different capabilities, done by another side.

[–] FederatedSaint@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Attacking kids at a music festival? Or attacking a terrorist organization? Your false equivalency is despicable.

Just admit it. You hate Jewish people. Stop pretending there is some moral equivalent for Hamas attacking and indiscriminately killing innocent people, and Israel trying to stamp out an entrenched terror cell that is using their people as meat shields to somehow manipulate people like you into thinking they're the good guys. 🙄

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

First, you wrote some incomprehensible bullshit, second, I'm part Jewish.

[–] FederatedSaint@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That sucks that you're part Jewish and still hate them so much that you go on the internet and support killing them.

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

Why do you keep posting nonsense? Anything about me anybody can judge for themselves from my comments. You look like a moron. Things don't become your way just cause you say so.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

At least try to pretend you're here for a real discussion.

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago

Sure buddy, I am also Steve jobs