this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
149 points (94.1% liked)

Android

27947 readers
215 users here now

DROID DOES

Welcome to the droidymcdroidface-iest, Lemmyest (Lemmiest), test, bestest, phoniest, pluckiest, snarkiest, and spiciest Android community on Lemmy (Do not respond)! Here you can participate in amazing discussions and events relating to all things Android.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules


1. All posts must be relevant to Android devices/operating system.


2. Posts cannot be illegal or NSFW material.


3. No spam, self promotion, or upvote farming. Sources engaging in these behavior will be added to the Blacklist.


4. Non-whitelisted bots will be banned.


5. Engage respectfully: Harassment, flamebaiting, bad faith engagement, or agenda posting will result in your posts being removed. Excessive violations will result in temporary or permanent ban, depending on severity.


6. Memes are not allowed to be posts, but are allowed in the comments.


7. Posts from clickbait sources are heavily discouraged. Please de-clickbait titles if it needs to be submitted.


8. Submission statements of any length composed of your own thoughts inside the post text field are mandatory for any microblog posts, and are optional but recommended for article/image/video posts.


Community Resources:


We are Android girls*,

In our Lemmy.world.

The back is plastic,

It's fantastic.

*Well, not just girls: people of all gender identities are welcomed here.


Our Partner Communities:

!android@lemmy.ml


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gelberhut@feddit.de 111 points 1 year ago (5 children)

No. This will conflict with EU laws.

[–] randomaccount43543@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup! Sideloading is legally required to be available by the EU Digital Markets Act by March 2024. Both Apple and Android must comply!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act

[–] OptimisticPrime@lemmy.fmhy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Does apple comply? Just asking as I do not have an iphone and was under the impression its not possible.

[–] goodbyespez@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

It is rumored that Apple will allow sideloading in the EU in the next big iOS update.

[–] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

The las was recently paseo, shock be followed by march 2024

[–] Pika@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

side loading has always been available on apple Iphones, it's just been locked exclusively down to their developer program for debugging and testing purposes and said installed apps are only valid for a limited amount of time. I expect it will use the same framework that the dev program uses, just not as restricted. That being said i can forsee them region locking it.

[–] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Ahh, so the only thing saving us from a corporate dominated future is laws...

Well I'm an American, I'm sure if they wanted, they could always make a EU version and US version. I'm a bit worried for the future.

Edit: Spelling

[–] entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Android is open source, and there are many forks of it already. If they were to try this, those of us who care would just run a fork of Android.

[–] JeffVanGundy@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Assuming that there will be phones with unlockable bootloaders sold in the US in the future. There are precious few of them now. Importing's always an option (and quite easy these days), but then you run into the problem of band support.

[–] Tvkan@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

But the vast majority won't, and that's an issue.

[–] lightsecond@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Burning a new ROM is just as hard fora regular user as jailbreaking an iPhone, so practically it doesn’t make a difference if android is open-source or not.

Also, even though core android is OSS, what you and i run on our phones heavily depends on the play framework which is Google proprietary. Amazon has tried and failed to fork android before with its fire devices and that hasn’t worked.

[–] bug@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

FYI GrapheneOS is trivial to install (you don't need to do all that exploit and root nonsense you used to have to!) and runs entirely without Google Play Services (unless you want to install them in a less-invasive way, which is also officially supported)

[–] lightsecond@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks, bug. It’s gotten better for those of us with some background, but I’d definitely not say it’s trivial for a regular android user to use. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixels launched after August 2020 for starters. The recommended easy way to install GrapheneOS still needs you to OEM unlock and may need a factory reset as well. Jailbreaking might technically be harder, but this is hard enough.

The only way something like this can become mainstream is if popular smartphone manufacturers intentionally supported an alternative distribution (like GrapheneOS), which i don’t see happening for business reasons including the possibility of a fallout with Google.

Even though android is open-source, the hurdles for running an alternative are around the proprietary stuff we depend on in the ecosystem.

[–] bug@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd say having a Pixel is the only real blocker, as unlocking the bootloader and factory resetting the phone are both a couple of clicks in the settings that anyone can follow. I remember the days of rooting and installing cyanogenmod on early Android phones and compared to that the process today is really trivial!

[–] lightsecond@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You’re glossing over a lot of complexity that the GrapheneOS team is doing for you. The reason that they only support Pixels is because Google is relatively open. Their FAQ says the following:

In most cases, substantial work beyond that will be needed to bring the support up to the same standards. For most devices, the hardware and firmware will prevent providing a reasonably secure device, regardless of the work put into device support. … Broader device support can only happen after the community (companies, organizations and individuals) steps up to make substantial, ongoing contributions to making the existing device support sustainable.

You can’t expect Android users to be able to en masse move to a fork if Google decides to close the tap.

I have LineageOS (CyanogenMod) running on one of my spare phones and it is easier now than it used to be ten years ago (speaking from experience), but you still need to have a phone that is supported, and the OEM needs to allow unlocking. I had to wait a couple of weeks to be able to unlock. So it’s definitely not trivial.

[–] bug@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

You’re glossing over a lot of complexity that the GrapheneOS team is doing for you

Not meaning to gloss over, it's their hard work that makes it a nice experience! It's always been the case that some devices are more moddable than others, comparing the ones that are simplest is the only comparison that really makes sense though.

As for users moving en masse it obviously wouldn't be trivial, but the theoretical removal of side-loading wouldn't happen overnight so there would hopefully be plenty of time for more solutions to pop up.

[–] gelberhut@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago

EU laws (btw, afaik, India has similar requirement now) is one of the reasons which will make disabling alternative installation option very complicated if Google would want to.

I do not think it will want to do this, though.

[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago

I love the EU.

[–] shitescalates@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] penguin_in_suit@lemmy.one 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Law comes into effect march 2024. Apple will need to comply then

[–] Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago

Watch how they will act like it was their decision.

[–] shitescalates@midwest.social -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

AFAIK they have no way of doing that. This would be a huge undertaking.

[–] T156@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Doesn't Apple already allow side loading to some degree?

You can just put an app onto a iDevice through iTunes, without having to run it through the App Store. Apple even puts out a specifically outdated version of iTunes that still retains much of the App functionality.

It's not as though they're trying to build the feature in from scratch.

[–] Graphy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I have a few side-loaded apps on my phone through TrollStore. iirc they don’t support anything relatively new though.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Why would it be a huge undertaking? Allowing installing apps from package files obtained from anywhere seems like a trivial change to the software for a company with a lot of resources.

[–] Aftermath6187@vlemmy.net 6 points 1 year ago

They have until 2024 to comply