this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
117 points (97.6% liked)

worldnews

4839 readers
1 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil. Disagreements happen, that does not give you the right to personally insult each other.

  2. No racism or bigotry.

  3. Posts from sources that aren't known to be incredibly biased for either side of the spectrum are preferred. If this is not an option, you may post from whatever source you have as long as it is relevant to this community.

  4. Post titles should be the same as the article title.

  5. No spam, self-promotion, or trolling.

Instance-wide rules always apply.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Gazumi@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As an outsider, I read about land being reclaimed by Isreali settlers but cannot see how this is different to any other similar situation, like the Ukraine conflict.

[–] Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

From my understanding is Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for years now. This is Palestine "fuck you" move that, imo, is long overdue. I do not want this conflict, but Israel has this coming.

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The non-combatants being murdered did not "have it coming", and thinking otherwise is psychotic.

Hamas could have restricted themselves to army bases; they're not hidden. Instead they stormed nearby towns and started gunning down anyone they could find. There is simply no justification for this.

And before anyone asks, every innocent Palestinian murdered by the IDF is just as much of a crime. This isn't how any progress is made. Who knows how many Gazans are going to pay for this, which Hamas is perfectly well aware of because it doesn't actually care about them.

[–] Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Youre right, I made my comment at about the start of this. I dont necessarily change my "this was coming" stance but at no point did i think this would change anything and will definitely make things worse for everyone involved.

[–] Spzi@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago

I don't know much about this conflict, so all I say is meant as big "maybe"s.

As a settler moving into occupied territory, maybe you shouldn't be counted as 100% civilian. Not a military target either. I think it blurs the line.

Sucks for the next generation.

[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Netanyahu was elected despite Israel expanding so I guess the majority of citizens were fine with taking palestinian lands. If you're fine with stealing something you're fine with taking the risk that it will be fought for. They thought they could do it without risking their lives and then fucked around and found out.

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

And Hamas was also elected, and if you spend any time on Arabic social media, you'll see this being applauded everywhere.

Is it that hard to think at even a slightly higher level? If you think these attacks were justified because of prior violence, then you also think that Israel is now justified at a brutal response, which will further radicalize all sides and make peace even more impossible than it already is. I mean, do you want Gaza to become a flattened field of rubble? Because that's the road that you're talking about going down.

[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Gaza is a prison and Israel is.the warden

[–] Oneobi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It was only a matter of time. You can only oppress innocent people so much before they have no other choice left behind.

As usual the world turns a blind eye to this oppression.

Of course, now, Israel will feel they have the mandate to obliterate them even more.

[–] Hiccup@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

Innocent my ass. Oppressors my ass. They negotiate in bad faith and have never wanted a peace, nor will they ever achieve anything by this violence. They're a disgusting one trick pony that the world has seen through.

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago

Lynching and raping and mutilating bodies and killing civilians for fun are not among things possibly justified by any oppression. As I've said elsewhere, they behave like Azeris or Turks. If you want a truly independent Palestinian state, then you'd want these thugs squashed, otherwise they'll create a picture impeding the creation of such a state for decades.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't remember the U.S. oppressing the Saudis. When did that happen?

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Osama Bin Laden:

Terrorism against America deserves to be praised because it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel, which kills our people.

Did American civilians 'have it coming' on 9/11?

Do Israeli civilians 'have it coming' now?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Our people?" Bin Laden wasn't a Palestinian. He was just lying. So I'm pretty sure that's not the same.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He claimed he was defending his fellow arabs.

Would 9/11 have been justified if Bin Laden had been a Palestinian?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't play games like that. He wasn't a Palestinian. He wasn't fighting for Palestinians. That was a bullshit cover. It was a Saudi operation. It was funded by the Saudis and 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. If there is ever a Palestinian attack on U.S. soil, and I doubt there will be since they don't have the funding or the organization, we can talk about whether or not it is justified and what measures, if any, should be taken.

But I'm not interested in "Would Hitler's invasion of Poland have been justified if the Poles were the ones oppressing the Jews" questions.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

In summary:

  • You don't think American civilians 'had it coming' on 9/11. The reason you don't think they had it coming, is because Bin Laden wasn't Palestinian.

  • You do think Israeli civilians 'have it coming' now, because those murdering them are Palestinian.

  • If Palestians murdered 3000 American civilians, you think 'we could talk' about if that was justified and if they should face consequences ('if any') for that crime.

  • Perhaps predictably, you failed to not mention the holocaust or Hitler.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

No no Russia is evil for invading Ukraine. But Palestinians are evil for being invaded by Israel

[–] bh11235@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago

The conflict in Israel / Palestine started under British rule, before the proper existence of either Israel of Palestine as we know them today. The population that would eventually declare Israeli independence came riding in on migrant ships, not tanks. The one decisive moment everyone can agree an internationally recognized border was violated was the Israeli expansion in '67. So I would say that it's fruitful and apt to ask "how is demanding Israel return to '67 borders any different from demanding that Russia go back to Russia?", but stretching the analogy to the whole I/P conflict is probably out of place.