this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2023
536 points (95.7% liked)

politics

19244 readers
2308 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?

— Only the monstrous anger of the guns.

Only the stuttering rifles’ rapid rattle

Can patter out their hasty orisons...

-- Wilfred Owen

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] gowan@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Keyes was not a socialist as he owned slaves throughout his life. Im fairly positive that slave owning does align with any form of socialism.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was Key, not Keyes, and his relationship with slavery was complicated. Far more so than many of his contemporaries.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He owned eight humans when he died. He liberated slaves to oversee other slaves. Calling him a socialist is like calling Marx a neoconservative.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't say he was a socialist, I said his relationship with slavery was complicated. Which it was, as you can see if you just read that part of the Wikipedia entry.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The comment I replied to said he was a socialist

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok, and the comment I replied to said a thing about a man whose name you got wrong which is not as black-and-white as you make it out to be. You don't get to be free from criticism yourself, sorry.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except it is. He owned slaves throughout his life. That is at complete odds with socialism.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again, I never said he was a socialist.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And again the initial comment I replied to made that claim which is why we keep returning to it. You then tried to back that up by claiming it was more complex than that because he had a nuanced view on slavery. Im saying it isn't relevant because he died owning slaves which is at direct odds with every form of socialism I am aware of.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't try to back that up. That is a lie. Do not tell lies.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you weren't backing the claim he was a socialist why did you reply at all? The nuance in his views of his own slave holding would not be germane unless you were backing that claim somehow.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because I don't like people who treat history as if it's a black and white affair. Are you going to apologize for lying?

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I never lied. Your reply only makes sense if you were defending the claim. Otherwise there would be no need for a response since my claim is accurate that he owned soaves and died owning slaves.

If anyone is lying it would be you but I suspect you were just not thinking when you replied.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You said I was defending the claim. That was a lie. I didn't think you would apologize, so I think I'll just block you. I don't like liars.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago

Only liar is yourself here.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

To the tune of an old British drinking song for a gentlemen's club.