this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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I have the same kind of reaction, just in the opposite direction.
I'm fine with campaigning for higher salaries, I'm fine with campaigning for shorter work week, but I'm allergic to the combination of both, because it's usually accompanied by claims that the productivity won't go down as a result, which is simply delusional and reeks of populism.
Anecdotal evidence: I work in software. We get more work done after time off, and much less work done near the end of a 5day work week, our data shows.
I'm curious how that applies to different fields.
Time is not directly proportional to productivity.
My job, I notice I'm often somewhat off-flow after a vacation or an unexpected day off. But I also drop off significantly after six hours. RN I do work 32 hrs: 3x 6-hr days and 2x 7-hour days, more or less.
I'm an SWE too, and my anecdote is that I certainly can't do work in 4 days what I'm currently doing in 5 days.
My point wasn't that 4 days outputs more work than 5 It was that the average output per day decreases with a longer work week, though one or two people we work with manage to be pretty consistent.
Also I think that 4 days of productivity is enough.
Our most effective co workers have had special work hours and agreements. Some worked 4 days on 3 days off, some work 3 hours less a day. They are the ones who consistently pushed out good stuff, were the least distracted, and had the space to occasionally work extra if they felt like it. The only reason they could do that was because they didn't rely on the 5 day work week to keep themselves afloat.
I wish I could be in that boat but unfortunately my wage means I have to work all 5 days to support myself and family comfortably.
Good, but many do claim exactly this to support the "32 hours with no loss in pay".
I can believe that, but the causation is often the opposite - they are the most effective, thus they have the biggest leverage to negotiate better conditions for themselves. At least that's what I've seen.
There's been studies showing shorter work weeks produce more. People work better when they're less stressed/happier/less tired.
Sorry if that reeks of populism. I think you're point of view reeks of authoritarianism tbh.
Because science shows less is more, when it comes to work and school. The only reason to continue the 40 hour work week is so capitalists can keep workers in their place.
And that's not right.
I have looked up some of those studies in the past and they measured productivity by the company revenue which seems incredibly flawed.
The studies were limited to office workers too. There's no way a truck driver can cover the same distance 25% faster.
I'll have to read those studies more closely. And I hear you on the truck driver argument. That said, I'm sure less stressed/less tired truck drivers cause a lot fewer accidents. Which may have an impact on insurance premiums for companies that are in that business.
I guess my point is economic impact can be measured in various ways and it's possible that everyone working less (and the 10% paying the other 90% of us a fair wage), will be a net benefit for society and the health of the individuals in society, and thus, a net benefit for the economy.
As a non-office worker (worked in food service my whole life), I've seen the direct effects on mental and physical health caused by being overworked and under paid. And those negative effects certainly spill over into the quality of service, as well as the potential for a accidents at work.
I know that's anecdotal, but I think it also is a very reasonable observation that passes the common sense test anyway.