this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
82 points (100.0% liked)

the_dunk_tank

15914 readers
12 users here now

It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Ledditors griefing over internet "censorship" and muh freeze peach principles that were apparently violated when effective, direct measures were used to combat fascism.

I don’t think we should ever celebrate people being deplatformed...If the content is illegal pursue legal means to punish the posters...But let’s say they win, and they get the domain blocked everywhere. They’ll just launch a new domain, just like all the pirate streaming sites do.

Are you implying you shouldn't try to do anything because the fascists will (deterministically) win? Hence why the people trying to shut them down went straight to the ISPs because they know they can win the ISPs over on moral grounds?

[...] you have to decide if the internet is a human right or not. If it is, it must be for everyone, or it is for no one. As soon as we make exceptions to basic rights, those rights get eroded for everyone. Because people in power will bend the exceptions to political expediency.

Fascists don't deserve basic rights.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] xXthrowawayXx@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

At best the isp actions merit critical support, since they got the right answer but not within a framework of understanding or decision making that ensures their power will be used appropriately in other situations.

e: to go a bit farther, the eff is also right for the wrong reasons. their concerns about censorship are merited, not because that censorship will impinge upon free speech, but because we have no assurance that censorship will be meted out consistent with Juche.

[–] drhead@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

It really is hard to be enthusiastic about this when we know damn well that the right wants to censor queer people on the internet and that it very realistically could be used as part of legal justification to do so. They're already working on it through a few avenues: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/senator-admits-kids-online-safety

Of course, they'd most likely find a way to do this with or without KF being taken down by ISP or court order, but how the hell am I supposed to find that reassuring?

[–] lckdscl@whiskers.bim.boats 4 points 1 year ago

I agree that it stops at critical support. ISPs are no saints. Nevertheless, the material reality called for actions to be taken by the activists. While I agree the framework is not ideal, it won't change unless we change the system; we live in a world where the line between government and business is blurry, and there will also be constant power struggle between humans (minus fascists) and these monoliths. But I think we should struggle case-by-case, both speculatively and as they arise, instead of basing it on nebulous and generalized ideas of "rights" or "principles".