this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
468 points (96.1% liked)

Political Memes

1137 readers
1 users here now

Non political memes: !memes@sopuli.xyz

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Is the bottom the full name for Nazi? What’s AFD? Sorry if I’m out of the loop

[–] WtfEvenIsExistence@lemmy.ca 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Nazi party's official name: NSDAP- Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei- National Socialist German Workers' Party (They weren't actually socialist, it's just the name they chose)

AfD: Alternative für Deutschland- Alternative for Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

Excerpt from Wikipedia:

In March 2020, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (German: Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz) classified AfD's far-right nationalistic faction known as Der Flügel as "a right-wing extremist endeavor against the free democratic basic order" and as "not compatible with the Basic Law", placing it under intelligence surveillance.

Basically, they meet the requirements (or so I've heard, but correct me if I'm wrong) to be banned as an extremist party, like how the Nazi party was banned.

[–] scorpionix@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They weren’t actually socialist, it’s just the name they chose

Technically, they were, at least to some degree until the Night of the long Knifes during which all left-leaning SA Leaders were purged.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yeah, to claim that people like Ernst Roehm weren't socialist is revisionist, to put it mildly. Dude was anticapitalist and wanted to nationalize most industries.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There is nationalization, and there is nationalization.

Mussolini/Gentile stated that the goal of fascism was the merger of the state with the corporation, eg their economic theory of corporatism.

Or, to put it another way, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

The Soviet Union's obsession with nationalization as the means of socialism was one of the many reasons other leftist thinkers coined the term "red fascism" to describe them.

What, after all, is the functional difference between a state taking 70% of your productivity and a capitalist splitting that 70% with a statist?

(Well, hopefully it's infrastructure and social benefits, including a army strong enough to defend yourself from all the real fascists, but power and weak oversight corrupts)

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago
[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Fascists aren’t socialists. Jesus Christ. Rohm wanted social safety nets, he didn’t want the workers to control the means of production, he wanted a corporate state - because he was a fascist, not a socialist.

You’re confusing the left wing of a fascist party with the left wing.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On what planet does "socialism" refer exclusively to worker-owned means of production? That's communism. Nobody uses socialism that way unless they're manipulating wording to fit an agenda.

[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this planet

Socialism is a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

it's always amazing when people like you are SO CONFIDENTLY INCORRECT about basic information that can easily be determined with a simple search.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have to break it to you, but that just as well describes state-owned companies. It has nothing at all to do with worker ownership. Your own definition makes Roehm a socialist lmao

[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

moron. learn what private property means. fascism is not state ownership of corporations, it's corporate ownership of the state, a very different dialectic.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Name-calling now? Keep eating those muffins buddy. It's OK to admit you're wrong once in a while.

Edit: directly from the horse's mouth!

Erich Koch, who would eventually become the Gauleiter of East Prussia, maintained in an a 1931 article "Sind wir Faschisten?" that the key difference between Mussolini's Fascist party and the NSDAP was that the former was capitalistic, while the later was socialist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vdkls/comment/cxn4p61/

[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

fuck off nazi lover. make like your heroes and fucking die.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hope you can get the help you need, friend. BTW see my edit to my previous post.

kill yourself. saves us the trouble of having to do it eventually.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is there a book I can read? I've fallen for this oversimplification, yet knowing about the night of the long knives, and incorrectly underatood this bit of history.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Sorry, it's been ages since I read up on WWII in general, and I don't have a specific recommendation for you. Roehm wrote a memoir but I think it's Mein Kampf-esque) rambling and incoherent). Mind you, from the mid 30s onward the Nazis were not especially socialist, so people aren't necessarily wrong when they point out the "socialist" is a misnomer.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not revisionist. Most people see the atrocities committed by the Nazis, and then say "yeah that shit isn't socialist". It's a historical blind spot most people have about post-Weimar Germany.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It also helps that the socialist wing of the party was wiped out (literally) before the party became, er, internationally famous. If nobody had heard of the USSR until Stalin's purges, they might have said they weren't socialist either.

[–] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Also, the "left" wing of the party were still fucking unhinged.

[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How does that name get shortened to "nazi"?

[–] WtfEvenIsExistence@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

From Wikipedia:

The full name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (English: National Socialist German Workers' Party) and they officially used the acronym NSDAP. The term "nazi" had been in use, before the rise of the NSDAP, as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backwards farmer or peasant. It characterised an awkward and clumsy person, a yokel. In this sense, the word Nazi was a hypocorism of the German male name Igna(t)z (itself a variation of the name Ignatius)—Igna(t)z being a common name at the time in Bavaria, the area from which the NSDAP emerged.[17][18]

In the 1920s, political opponents of the NSDAP in the German labour movement seized on this. Using the earlier abbreviated term "Sozi" for Sozialist (English: Socialist) as an example,[19] they shortened the NSDAP's name, Nationalsozialistische, to the dismissive "Nazi", in order to associate them with the derogatory use of the aforementioned term.[20][18][21][22][23][24] The first use of the term "Nazi" by the National Socialists occurred in 1926 in a publication by Joseph Goebbels called Der Nazi-Sozi ["The Nazi-Sozi"]. In Goebbels' pamphlet, the word "Nazi" only appears when linked with the word "Sozi" as an abbreviation of "National Socialism".[25]

After the NSDAP's rise to power in the 1930s, the use of the term "Nazi" by itself or in terms such as "Nazi Germany", "Nazi regime", and so on was popularised by German exiles outside the country, but not in Germany. From them, the term spread into other languages and it was eventually brought back into Germany after World War II.[21] The NSDAP briefly adopted the designation "Nazi" in an attempt to reappropriate the term, but it soon gave up this effort and generally avoided using the term while it was in power.[21][22] In each case, the authors typically referred to themselves as "National Socialists" and their movement as "National Socialism", but never as "Nazis". A compendium of Hitler's conversations from 1941 through 1944 entitled Hitler's Table Talk does not contain the word "Nazi" either.[26] In speeches by Hermann Göring, he never uses the term "Nazi".[27] Hitler Youth leader Melita Maschmann wrote a book about her experience entitled Account Rendered.[28] She did not refer to herself as a "Nazi", even though she was writing well after World War II. In 1933, 581 members of the National Socialist Party answered interview questions put to them by Professor Theodore Abel from Columbia University. They similarly did not refer to themselves as "Nazis".[29]

[–] ReCursing@kbin.social 29 points 1 year ago

They called themselves "national socialists". They were not socialists.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

AfD is a current right-wing party in Germany.

The Nazi party's name was the German National Socialist Workers' Party (National Sozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiter Partei)

[–] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

And to be clear: the first nazi camps were built to hold any communists or socialists they didn’t already execute.

Nazis hated Marxists. More than any other group.

[–] ResQ@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

And to be even clearer: the only reason why they chose this name was to appeal to common people and workers, the biggest part of the electorate. And it worked.

One example of their bullshit: They promised an end to unemployment and they did manage to get millions back into a job! How, you ask? Why, by making them build public sector projects like the Autobahn in MANUAL LABOR. While back then obviously very good machines already existed. But they'd need 1 operator and not 10 "hard-working, strong Aryan men with shovels and pickaxes".

Of course, most of the public infrastructure projects didn't benefit the public. It benefitted Hitler's war machine a few years later. Can't roll your Panzers over dirt roads.

Source: I have the misfortune of choosing history as my academic path....

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

Alternative for Germany, a far-right political party in modern Germany. They are currently getting 15-20% of the vote.