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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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It seems you and I have different ideas of what enabling genocide looks like. Your opinion seems to be that her working for a ceasefire means she worked for peace. I find that argument weak partially because that was her just doing her job (unsuccessfully), and the ceasefire was only ever temporary and lacked justice (a prerequisite for peace). My opinion is that siding with the genociders counts as enabling genocide. She had the power to speak against Israel and show support for Palestine but did not use that power, she used her voice to say that Israel has the right to war. I also assume she had some power at the DNC and didn't use it to let a Palestinian speak. Everything I know about what her positions were, based on what she said, her input to the public discourse, puts her firmly on the side of Israel, the genociders.
You can disagree with my opinion, but I haven't made any statements that are "unequivocally wrong". The paragraph above is the first time I tried to represent anything but my own opinion, and I still don't think I did a strawman with it.
Her job is the only official power she had and she used it to stop the killing and get hostages released. That is directly trying to stop the genocide. Saying otherwise is counterfactual
So you don't think her voice had any power? If no, that brings into question why she was picked for the role at all. And it's not "counterfactual" to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.
Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President's foreign policy?
Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.
Is that a good thing? Is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide? But when she's running her own campaign seems an excellent time to distinguish herself from her predecessor. Especially when she got that spot because polling showed Biden couldn't win. Even more when she's specifically asked what she'd have done differently per my source from earlier.
The war will not stop as long as both exist. The past 75 years of conflict have shown that. The goal as stated was only ever going to end with pauses.
That's still compromising with and defending the genociders. This evergreen meme
Also this quote feels relevant
It just is. It's an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.
So you're in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.
To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?
I'm in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I'm opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.
Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.
How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn't qualify as genocide?
I'm not skipping over the deals she was making. I'm just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict. As well as highlighting the context in which it was done.
How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn't qualify as genocide?
Working for peace is the exact opposite of contributing to the conflict.
Killing 4.4 to 5.3 million Nazis was part of that achievement. It was not achieved peacefully. Thankfully "Nazi" isn't an ethnicity, but Israeli Jews are and ethnic group.
I was actually trying to use a neutral phrase. Meaning that it would be possible to have a positive contribution to resolving the conflict. As I think I've made clear, I don't believe it was positive overall because of a few factors I've tried to lay out. Can you say that you aren't skipping over factors I've presented to come to your conclusion?
That was the war that got us to the place where we were able to make demands of the state and hold them accountable for their actions. At the moment, it doesn't seem like war is required to give the US that kind of sway over the state of Israel.
They are irrelevant. You don't try to stop something you support.
Do you expect that Netanyahu would step down from power if we asked?