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I was not complicit in getting either of them elected. My hands are clean, and so is my conscience.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" Rush-Freewill
This is prime "enlightened third party voter" meme material right here.
Must be nice in that ivory tower.
And this is prime "You didn't vote for my shit candidate, therefore you are literally Hitler".
It is certainly nice to not have blood on my hands.
You're living with the delusion of clean hands and a clean conscious and you only had to sacrifice countless numbers of people to do it.
If I had voted for Kamala I would't even have that delusion.
this is an interesting stance. not a US citizen, but i live in a country where voting is mandatory. i assume you didnt vote?
There are not just two candidates in the US, although the establishment would prefer everyone to believe that.
right but FPTP kinda ensures third party is negligible until it becomes the 'second party' right?
edit: and also, i agree itd not youre fault, not trying to assess blame, just trying to understand the psyche of a (realistically) non-voter
Unfortunately.
So you acknowledge your part in getting Trump elected, good to know.
In a few years maybe you'll drop this delusion that you didn't elect Trump by not voting for Harris.
My part in getting Trump elected is minuscule to the part the Democratic Party played to get him electable.
You were complicit in getting Trump elected the moment you didnt vote for his opponent.
Did he have only one opponent? Last time I checked there were more than two candidates.
You had a choice to make, either vote for one of them, assuming you're American and can vote, or be complicit with whomever was elected. You can trick yourself into believing you had no impact on the outcome, but assume what I said earlier was true, you either helped trump get elected, and therefore have blood on your hands, or you voted against trump, and have blood on your hands, but less blood.
The result would be the same no matter the candidate. Gaza was razed to the ground while the democrats were in power. And not only that, but they actively backed the Israeli government. If we allow ourselves to betray our moral principles, then we are on a downwards spiral where each candidate can say and do whatever they want, as long as the candidate next to them is a tiny bit worse.
Hence why I said you had blood on your hands no matter what. This is where harm mitigation comes in, by not voting, you agree to whoever is elected, in this case trump who wants to further ethnic cleansing. This was the last election in the US as we know it. And trump isn't a "tiny bit worse".
Who said anything about not voting? There were not just two candidates last time I checked.
I agree to whoever gets elected, because that is how democracy works. As far as I am concerned that might be the last election in the US. period. And the Democratic Party is partly to blame.
Not voting for the only viable candidate that wasn't an overt fascist is empowering fascists. The democrats aren't solely to blame those who allowed a fascist dictator to come into power share the blame
"Not voting for the only viable candidate". So between two shit candidates, we should vote for the one who smells the least like shit. Nope. That's not how democracy works. Everyone should vote for the candidate that bests represents them. I didn't say that democrats are solely to blame. I said partly.
When it's fptp yes that's the litteral outcome. Everyone SHOULD vote for the best candidate that represents them, in FPTP that's not how it works. When only one of 2 parties could get elected in the US and one of them is a fascist dictator, and the other isn't that is how it must work. When fptp is removed, and you could get a real democracy then yes. Until then the only moral option is to mitigate harm
And that literally doesn't solve anything. It just postpones the inevitable. Democracy lost the moment DNC plotted against Bernie Sanders back in 2016. What would you think would happen if we had another 4 years of Democrats? Fascism would just come 4 years later.
It would give 4 years to work towards electing more progressive people at a municipal and state level. It literally give a chance to solve something instead of being accelerationist.
Yep, we saw how much the Biden presidency helped.
It genuinely did, for many Americans, trans rights, federal funding for science. Should it have been better? Yes. Because it wasn't perfect does that mean fascism should be allowed in? No.
All these are just a smokescreen. Inequality is the real issue, and the rich got richer, while the poor got poorer.
I am not saying that fascism should be allowed in. I am just saying that people who feel left out, and who feel that society has betrayed them, they will start searching for other alternatives to our current system. Who left them out?
The GOP historically. If you want equality you don't vote for the party that is shouting out "you are lesser than me, you are my slaves"
I totally agree that the GOP is shit. Thing is that the DNC was preaching one thing and doing another, while simultaneously raising issues that were completely irrelevant to 95%+ of its base. "You can't feed your family? OK, but that trans kid who you probably never interact with at any point in your life has now rights, and I will base my whole identity around that!" Do you know how many people are transexual in the United States? Less than 1%.
You are right, if you want equality you don't vote for the GOP, but you sure as hell don't vote for the DNC either.
Not voting for candidate = voting for them.
Solid logic.
Telling people how they have to vote.
Also, solid logic.
Thank you, yes when it comes to a fascist dictator vs a non fascist, non dictator, voting for the non fascist non dictator is the only viable option, unless you're OK with a fascist dictator.
Pretty fucking clear.
Unfortunately most people here are in their early twenties and have yet to learn about the flaws of FPTP. Sadly this was probably their most important election and they fucked it up.
Tell me about it. I'm canadian and we have FPTP, it is not a way to democratically elect anyone. It ends up being a vote against, rather than a vote for. We've been trading blue and red since forever here, with one tiny little exception. It's not representative at all.
UK here, same shitty system, though it's supposedly good at ensuring mostly-stable governments. We had a hung parliament in 2010 and it was actually pretty decent (in the sense that the Lib Dems were able to hold back the Tories' more aggressive policies), but having true proportional representation would significantly change the UK political spectrum.
Ironically I was thankful for FPTP in our 2024 election because it capped the power that far-right parties like Reform UK could take. We now have a super strong Labour majority and 4.5 more years of them pushing through progressive policies without much opposition. Proportional representation would slow down progress in this way, because the parliament would have to constantly find mitigations and compromises. That's actually a really good quality of a government, but the UK is in a poor state right now and needs investment desperately and quickly!