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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/24943429

Human ancestors like Australopithecus – which lived around 3.5 million years ago in southern Africa – ate very little to no meat, according to new research published in the scientific journal Science. This conclusion comes from an analysis of nitrogen isotope isotopes in the fossilized tooth enamel of seven Australopithecus individuals. The data revealed that these early hominins primarily relied on plant-based diets, with little to no evidence of meat consumption.

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

RCTs measuring CVD biomarkers also pretty consistently show that reducing meat consumption, especially red meat, decreases well-established CVD biomarkers, so, if these results combined don’t convince you, what results would convince you?

May I see these RCTs please? What do you consider a CVD biomarker? Not LDL hopefully. CAC scores, insulin resistance, or all cause mortality please.

then it’s pretty clear that eating ASF in large amounts is suboptimal.

I do not agree with this, a abundance of weak observational studies do not make causation. But the point of this discussion isn't to get us to agree, just to indicate that people well versed in the literature and looking at the evidence strength would not agree that the evidence is overwhelming.. which is to say there has not been a casual link established.

[–] AntiThesis@leminal.space 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

The study Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials of Red Meat Consumption in Comparison With Various Comparison Diets on Cardiovascular Risk Factors analyzed 6 RCT's that compared red meat to plant-based protein sources and finds that the plant-based protein sources consistently result in better blood lipids and lipoproteins compared with red meat:

  1. Wiebe SL, 1984 - https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/40.5.982
  2. Sinclair AJ, 1987 - https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02540369
  3. Prescott DA, 1988 - https://doi.org/10.1042/cs0740665
  4. Wolmarans P, 1991 - https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/53.5.1171
  5. Haub MD, 2005 - https://doi.org/10.1016/j.metabol.2005.01.019
  6. Hosseinpour-Niazi S, 2014 - https://doi.org/10.1038/ejcn.2014.228

As to your comments about CVD markers, there are of course contrarians, but the evidence linking both LDL-C and apoB with CVD risk is strong. Look at mendelian randomization studies for both.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12916-020-01792-7

https://www.neurology.org/doi/full/10.1212/WNL.0000000000007091

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1003062

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2814089

Substitution of animal with plant protein lowers apo-B https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/JAHA.117.006659

In comparison with control diets, plant-based diets improved Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/16/13/2110

All cause mortality was reduced by plant-based diet in the meta-analyses of prospective cohort studies I shared earlier, nobody tries to measure that for dietary RCT’s…

Low carb diets high in animal products result in increased CAC scores and the animal-based but not plant-based LCD score is significantly associated with a higher risk of CAC progression (animal-based LCD score: hazard ratio, 1.456 [95% CI, 1.015–2.089]; P=0.041; plant-based LCD score: hazard ratio, 1.016 [95% CI, 0.821–1.257]; P=0.884 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/ATVBAHA.120.314838 (observational)